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Phosphate Basic Info, please.


CalmedByFish
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I have no idea why people monitor phosphate, and can't seem to find it on the various Co-Op sites.

What's the good and bad of phosphate? Does it actually need monitored, or is it not really a big deal? 

(I try to keep things as easy as possible, so if there's not really a reason to monitor it... )

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I work at my local fish store, and the only time we test for phosphate is when people are having algae issues. Phosphate can be indicative of over feeding or over fertilization. If you’re not having any algae issues, then I wouldn’t worry about it, phosphate should be 0 as long as you aren’t way over feeding or over fertilizing.

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@KBOzzie59 and @Steph’s Fish and Plants

I have one tank with breeding endlers. Because of the preggy females and the fry, I feed it more than any other tank. It also is the only tank with a consistent algae problem. 

It sounds like I can assume it has phosphate? 

If so, I guess the solutions would be more plants and water changes? Anything else?

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I would recommend buying a phosphate test kit if you think you have phosphates or go to a LFS that has comprehensive water testing, they will usually charge you for parameters testing outside the normal pH, kH, gH, etc. But it's usually only a few bucks.

 

The only time I've ever seen phosphates high enough to worry about was on well water in farmland. 

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On 8/2/2021 at 10:14 AM, CalmedByFish said:

@Biotope Biologist Are phosphates dangerous for the animals, or just an algae-causing nuisance?

Not necessarily in the home aquarium. Or at least I have never heard of it in the home aquaria. But in lakes and ponds yes it can cause toxic cyanobacteria blooms.

 

Just keep in mind that algae and plants both respire at night which in large enough quantities can suffocate fish. Again really rare, but saying just algae blooms doesn't necessarily mean that algae can't be harmful.

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On 8/2/2021 at 1:04 PM, Biotope Biologist said:

 toxic cyanobacteria blooms.

Just keep in mind that algae and plants both respire at night which in large enough quantities can suffocate fish. 

How have I never heard that cyanobacteria is toxic?! I even thought is was good for shrimp, as fresh food. 🙄

Just recently, someone else on the forum warned me that green water can suffocate fish overnight. (I love this forum.) I lowered the water level an inch yesterday, so the HOB's waterfall is shoving bubbles all the way to the gravel now.

Edited by CalmedByFish
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I've been having hair algae issues in my tank within the last 3-4 months. I went to an LFS; gave them a sample of my tap water and tank water. Turns out I have Phosphates in my water. 

Picked up some Phosguard and some Amano Shrimp to help curb the issue.
 

Agree with others - it's generally not an issue until occurs.  

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Cyanobacteria along with algae and of course plants are great for the aquarium and keeping a well balanced ecosystem, which I believe you have posted about somewhere else.

 

It's that old saying of too much of a good thing is a bad thing. While I don't know anything beyond that since I only studied freshwater as a source of pollution for marine ecosystems. I think it is a fascinating conversation, especially now that here in the Seattle area many of the lakes and ponds have no swimming allowed due to bacteria and algae blooms. I believe it causes skin irritation but I'm not sure what else.

Edited by Biotope Biologist
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From the state of Vermont:

Cyanobacteria, also known as blue-green algae, are naturally found in fresh water in the U.S. and in Lake Champlain and other Vermont waters. Some types of cyanobacteria can release natural toxins or poisons (called cyanotoxins) into the water, especially when they die and break down.

https://dec.vermont.gov/water/drinking-water/water-quality-monitoring/blue-green-algae/cyano-guidance

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Back in the late 70's the EPA started banning phosphates in laundry detergent because it was making its way into the waterways and causing major problems with algae and fish die off. I think phosphates were used to make the detergent work better.

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Saying phosphates are bad because they cause algae is like saying light is bad because it causes algae. Phosphorous is one of the "macronutrients," which are the three elements most necessary for plant growth. Phosphates can be dosed at high levels without issue, but if the conditions are ideal for algae growth excess phosphates can accelerate the growth of algae. 

If you are feeding a lot, sure, you will probably be able to measure phosphate in the water column. But that's just a proxy for how dirty your water is. There may be a whole cocktail of organic pollutants from overfeeding, but if all you can measure is phosphate, you are going to blame the phosphate. Rather than Phosguard, more frequent or larger water changes are more likely to have a beneficial effect on your algae problem.

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On 8/2/2021 at 4:23 PM, gjcarew said:

Saying phosphates are bad because they cause algae is like saying light is bad because it causes algae. Phosphorous is one of the "macronutrients," which are the three elements most necessary for plant growth. Phosphates can be dosed at high levels without issue, but if the conditions are ideal for algae growth excess phosphates can accelerate the growth of algae. 

If you are feeding a lot, sure, you will probably be able to measure phosphate in the water column. But that's just a proxy for how dirty your water is. There may be a whole cocktail of organic pollutants from overfeeding, but if all you can measure is phosphate, you are going to blame the phosphate. Rather than Phosguard, more frequent or larger water changes are more likely to have a beneficial effect on your algae problem.

Fair enough. There's never a silver bullet reason and/or answer to things in this hobby. However in my case, this wasn't the issue. 

Edited by Jeff
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I fight a long hair for the last 2-3 months and now start to see the results, i.e. the end of it.

I have reduced lighting hours to 7.5h (made of 3.5h in the morning and 4h at the afternoon/evening). Also, I have stopped using any liquid fertilizers, instead push tablets down the roots, it seems that I didn't understand the substrate that I used. There is one think that I still have to work on and this is the level of Phosphate in the water. I can't reduce the amount of food, the pigs take the food faster than it goes down for the Cories. Last week I had 2ppm of Phosphate, I changed 100ltr (~26gl) and this week it was down to 1ppm, will change water next week and see where it takes me, then, I will start to dose small amount of ferts. into the water so the Java Fern and the Anubias also have the minerals they need.

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On 8/3/2021 at 12:24 AM, Jeff said:

@BenA Were you dosing Easy Green? Because I'm in the similar boat. My plants are thriving...so I'm a little nervous of cutting off the EG. I also do Easy Root Tabs every month to boot. 

 

No EG for me as I live in Europe. I use TNC Light and ordered JBL Pro Flora 7+13 root tablets.

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