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High Ammonia Still After Multiple Full Water Changes


Jtrch38
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Hi all. I have a tank that is 3 months old. I am familiar with the nitrogen cycle and water parameters. I use API test kit which works good on other 3 tanks. This 20L though has had high ammonia the whole time and will not go away. It is a planted tank with eco complete planted substrate and Fluval 207 canister filter with two baskets full of Biohome Ultimate. After two months of high ammonia I decided to start doing water changes. I have done so many water changes I’ve lost count and this last one was 50 percent. Ammonia stays at 2 ppm even after a 100 percent water change. I think the tank is cycled but there is a steady source of ammonia coming from somewhere. I use reminerlized RO water and have no livestock in tank. Did a fishless cycle. Any ideas on where all this ammonia is coming from? 

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On 7/22/2021 at 7:45 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Test the RO water just to rule that out.

Are there fish in the tank?

Can you test nitrites and nitrates? What are they showing?

 

Hi. Yes I’ve tested the RO water. Zero ammonia. Nitrite is zero, nitrate stays at around 10ppm. It definitely not water source. Only had one mystery snail and two small nerite snails but took them out  a week ago. Don’t want to add anything until I can get this ammonia down. The tank acts like it’s cycled but something is making so much ammonia it can’t keep up.

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On 7/22/2021 at 7:47 PM, Ben_RF said:

Have you been adding any fertilizers, like DIY root tabs with osmocote?

What substrate are you using?

 

I was adding aquarium co op easy green but stopped two weeks ago. The ammonia was the same before I started using it. Only root tabs are a re Seachem flourish tabs. Eco complete planted substrate

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On 7/22/2021 at 8:11 PM, sudofish said:

What's different about this tank from your other 3 tanks? What did you use as an ammonia source during the fishless cycle?

Other two three tanks have different substrate and HOB filters

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I am sure you have checked for anything that might be decomposing in the tank, but it won't hurt to look again, even sifting through the gravel. You could also check the filter to see if there is anything in there. I don't mean to clean the filter. Just look in there to see if there is a dead fish or some other rotting material. I don't think you should clean the filter when you are trying to cycle, especially when you are having an ammonia issue.

I assume that it takes some period of time after a water change, especially a 100% water change, for the ammonia to come back. How long does it take?

Good luck and I hope you find the problem.

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Hi. I have sifted through the entire tank and found nothing on multiple occasions, snd I check my filter every three weeks just to make sure there isn’t any gunk in it. I do not wash it out. When I do the water changes, the ammonia is immediately at 2ppm still. It makes no sense. Even with a 100 percent water change, I STILL had 2ppm ammonia one minute after refilling was complete. Great source water

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what is your PH and temp? 

Likely you do not actually have 2.0 ppm ammonia and more than likely you have a ratio of ammonia and ammonium, ammonium is non toxic but the API liquid ammonia test will falsely register both as ammonia. PH and temp and water conditioners impact the ratio of Ammonia to ammonium. 

Maybe it is just the eco complete or something, Are you adding in those starter bacteria bottles? when they die off those bottles I think can cause ammonia readings from the dead cultures. When you do a 100% water change for example, what are you adding to the water other then the RO water? Nothing? 

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I had a similar situation with a 10 gal planted betta tank. Though I did a fish in cycle, the ammonia was off the charts even after multiple weeks-long water changes at 50% or more. The betta was a trooper and did well using AmmoLock. I couldn’t figure out how a single fish could create that much ammonia. I wasn’t overfeeding.  I had a large piece of mopani wood that was looking funky. It was getting covered in whitish fungus. I removed it because I couldn’t stand the look of it anymore. Once it the wood was gone the ammonia was significantly reduced after another big water change and then gone altogether after one more water change the following day. I’m done with mopani wood. 

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On 7/22/2021 at 10:24 PM, GardenStateGoldfish said:

what is your PH and temp? 

Likely you do not actually have 2.0 ppm ammonia and more than likely you have a ratio of ammonia and ammonium, ammonium is non toxic but the API liquid ammonia test will falsely register both as ammonia. PH and temp and water conditioners impact the ratio of Ammonia to ammonium. 

Maybe it is just the eco complete or something, Are you adding in those starter bacteria bottles? when they die off those bottles I think can cause ammonia readings from the dead cultures. When you do a 100% water change for example, what are you adding to the water other then the RO water? Nothing? 

Well I had tried bacteria but gave up because it didn’t do anythingZ tried 3 different brands. Ph is always about 7.3 and temp is 77

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On 7/23/2021 at 6:02 AM, Jtrch38 said:

Well I had tried bacteria but gave up because it didn’t do anythingZ tried 3 different brands. Ph is always about 7.3 and temp is 77

And no . I stopped adding anything during water change

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On 7/23/2021 at 6:17 AM, Andy's Fish Den said:

Try using a different test kit or strips? Maybe the one you have been using has something wrong with it? I would at least get another brand kit or strips and test for comparison.

I have two kits. One API and one Fluval. Both read sane thing and work fine with other 3 tanks. Definitely not test kit

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On 7/23/2021 at 6:33 AM, Jtrch38 said:

I have two kits. One API and one Fluval. Both read sane thing and work fine with other 3 tanks. Definitely not test kit

If its not the water going in the tank, and the test kit isn't bad, then it is something in the tank. I am going to guess that it is the eco-complete substrate. It is not known to release ammonia like the ADA or other aquascaping soils, but it absorbs nutrients and re-releases them, which it is probably doing. It absorbed ammonia when you were cycling the tank and is slowly releasing it back into the water column. One way to find out, siphon out 100% of the water. Test the water you are adding to the tank to be sure zero ammonia. add it to tank, immediately take a reading, then test it a few hours later. Or, just take the eco-complete out entirely, set tank back up and see what ammonia levels are. I used to love eco complete substrates, and put in several tanks, but I am slowly removing from my tanks and changing the substrates. All the tanks that have eco complete, I kept having large amounts of hair and staghorn algae that I couldn't get to go away, but I don't have the algae in tanks that don't have eco-complete. 

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On 7/23/2021 at 6:44 AM, Andy's Fish Den said:

If its not the water going in the tank, and the test kit isn't bad, then it is something in the tank. I am going to guess that it is the eco-complete substrate. It is not known to release ammonia like the ADA or other aquascaping soils, but it absorbs nutrients and re-releases them, which it is probably doing. It absorbed ammonia when you were cycling the tank and is slowly releasing it back into the water column. One way to find out, siphon out 100% of the water. Test the water you are adding to the tank to be sure zero ammonia. add it to tank, immediately take a reading, then test it a few hours later. Or, just take the eco-complete out entirely, set tank back up and see what ammonia levels are. I used to love eco complete substrates, and put in several tanks, but I am slowly removing from my tanks and changing the substrates. All the tanks that have eco complete, I kept having large amounts of hair and staghorn algae that I couldn't get to go away, but I don't have the algae in tanks that don't have eco-complete. 

This is what I was afraid of :(. I spend so much time scaping this tank. You don’t think if I keep doing water changes it will go away? Going to be heartbreaking to remove it all. Is what it is. Thank you.

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On 7/23/2021 at 8:09 AM, Jtrch38 said:

This is what I was afraid of :(. I spend so much time scaping this tank. You don’t think if I keep doing water changes it will go away? Going to be heartbreaking to remove it all. Is what it is. Thank you.

SPENT so much time scaping

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You can try keeping on doing the water changes, but I'm afraid it will just keep it up for a while. I know what you mean though, two of the tanks I have eco-complete in that I am going to tear it out and replace are pretty heavily planted and have been set up for a few years. I like the way I have it planted and all, but I cant stand the hair and staghorn algae problems. I've kept putting it off thinking that it will go away and stop releasing whatever nutrients it has but it hasn't yet.

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On 7/23/2021 at 8:37 AM, Andy's Fish Den said:

You can try keeping on doing the water changes, but I'm afraid it will just keep it up for a while. I know what you mean though, two of the tanks I have eco-complete in that I am going to tear it out and replace are pretty heavily planted and have been set up for a few years. I like the way I have it planted and all, but I cant stand the hair and staghorn algae problems. I've kept putting it off thinking that it will go away and stop releasing whatever nutrients it has but it hasn't yet.

Ok thank you. Yes I too experienced MAJOR algae issues in this tank for first two months. I have Fluval Stratum in other 3 tanks and it has worked AMAZINGLY. Just worried it will drop ph too much to add fish. I’ve only done planted shrimp tanks so far. This was to be my first pride and joy community tank but never happened :(. 

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So thinking the ammonia may have been coming from the eco complete, I did an experiment. I pulled out about a cup of the substrate all the way down to the bottom in middle of tank and put in a separate container. Filled that container up with one cup of my source water, and found ZERO AMMONIA! That is 50:50 ratio of substrate to water. If it was the substrate that cup of eater should have turned high ammonia right away. Now I am really at a loss. The only other thing in this damned tank are some large fake resin Sekuri Stones I purchased from Current USA. Does anyone think these could be the culprit!? It can’t be my canister filter because I turn that off when doing a water change and ammonia still shows high before I turn it back on. Any thoughts??

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On 7/23/2021 at 5:50 PM, Jtrch38 said:

So thinking the ammonia may have been coming from the eco complete, I did an experiment. I pulled out about a cup of the substrate all the way down to the bottom in middle of tank and put in a separate container. Filled that container up with one cup of my source water, and found ZERO AMMONIA! That is 50:50 ratio of substrate to water. If it was the substrate that cup of eater should have turned high ammonia right away. Now I am really at a loss. The only other thing in this damned tank are some large fake resin Sekuri Stones I purchased from Current USA. Does anyone think these could be the culprit!? It can’t be my canister filter because I turn that off when doing a water change and ammonia still shows high before I turn it back on. Any thoughts??

I would take the stones out. Not sure why, but it's about the only thing left.

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