IS THIS A STUPID IDEA??

[FishyMike]

Hello everyone,

Thank you in advance for your responses! My 20 long community tank is doing amazing everyone is happy and healthy including all my plants (going on 10 months..... my apitsos are looking beautiful and it looks like the female in my trio is looking like she might be able to spawn soon!!! So I have this crazy idea and I was wondering if its worth doing or not!  I acquired 2- 5v 25 gallon per hour pumps awhile back and had the idea of buying a smaller tank and putting on the side of my tank and creating a sump like system. I could take the breeding pair on apistos put them in the smaller tank then when they spawn take the parents out and put them back in the community....   is it worth doing? in my mind more water going thru smaller tank would be less of a problem with fluctuations in water parameters? "more water volume"  im a little pressed for space so this might make up for the small size of the secondary tank..

[Patrick_G]

It sounds like a fun experiment to me. I like the idea of trying to make the water in the small tank more stable. 

[FishyMike]

I will have to make sure both pumps are pushing the same amount of water I'm thinking or else it could be disasterous. hopefully that'll be the only issue. i would love to put a 10 gallon as the secondary but unfortunately room is a bit of an issue at the moment I might try it out with a 5.5 gallon first...

[Patrick_G]

I’m not exactly sure how it works but some sump users make a overflow siphon so water flows out and the same rate it’s pumped in. There are a few DIY instructions around. You could also drill a small hole and put a bulkhead fitting  in the five gal and use it in an overhead sump configuration. 

[FishyMike]

On 7/21/2021 at 4:12 PM, Patrick_G said:

I’m not exactly sure how it works but some sump users make a overflow siphon so water flows out and the same rate it’s pumped in. There are a few DIY instructions around. You could also drill a small hole and put a bulkhead fitting  in the five gal and use it in an overhead sump configuration. 

Interesting I haven't thought of that I could just raise it accouple inches and over flow right back in to the main tank. Didnt think if that.

[Ben P.]

I think what you might run into issues with is the intake of the pumps getting clogged.  You will have to have some sort of intake sponge to keep fry from getting sucked up and when you do that it will inevitably plug up and you will end up with one pump having a greater for rate then the other, which will overflow one of your tanks eventually

[FishyMike]

On 7/21/2021 at 4:23 PM, Ben P. said:

I think what you might run into issues with is the intake of the pumps getting clogged.  You will have to have some sort of intake sponge to keep fry from getting sucked up and when you do that it will inevitably plug up and you will end up with one pump having a greater for rate then the other, which will overflow one of your tanks eventually

I think you might be right! i do have fairly clean water and i could get the water from the top wards of the tank but it is a big risk if clogs i might need to do more research on the drilling overflow method! does anyone know if sumps use 2 pumps?

[Patrick_G]

I’m am by no means a sump expert, but the ones I’ve seen have a drilled overflow in the main tank and use only one pump. 

[tolstoy21]

On 7/21/2021 at 4:29 PM, Mikeo said:

I think you might be right! i do have fairly clean water and i could get the water from the top wards of the tank but it is a big risk if clogs i might need to do more research on the drilling overflow method! does anyone know if sumps use 2 pumps?

Sumps just use gravity to get the water from the main display tank to the sump. The water in the tank basically “overflows” via an aptly named overflow. This drains down into the sump, then a return pump pumps the water back up into the display tanks. 
 

Typically you’d want to be able to adjust the flow rate both out of the tank and back into the tank. For water draining out of an aquarium, flow rate is adjusted with the use of either a ball valve or gate valve. For the water going back in, flow rate is adjusted at the pump itself. 

if I were you, I’d watch a lot of YouTube videos about saltwater sump setups. There are a jillion out there.  Saltwater folks are sump masters. And a sump is a sump. The basic design/concepts will mostly be the same for freshwater, minus all the fancy saltwater equipment. 

[Odd Duck]

I’ve seen pictures of people building a “fish bridge” between aquariums but to keep fry in just one tank and the bigger fish out, you would need to have something (like the foam prefilter @Ben P. mentioned) on each end.  Then what’s the point of having a see through bridge?

I’ve also seen the same concept used with just PVC pipe somebody posted as a way of putting a sump system on a whole row of a tank bank.  He had sponge prefilters over each end of the pipe.  if these ever got a large enough air bubble in them for the siphon to stop, then you’d pump all the water from your small tank to the other and on the floor.

It’s likely that drilling would actually be safer as far as water management and have your set overflow plus the higher, back up overflow from the taller/bigger tank into the small tank.  The pump with the sponge prefilter would be in the small tank.

[Ben P.]

I think if you wanted to spend the time to do a drilled setup for multiple tanks, rather than a sump it would probably just be easier overall to use a canister.  I know some people really hate them but as long as you get one of decent quality, and understand that you do have to clean it semi regularly, it would probably be an easier setup.  With sumps and overflows you always run into the possibilty of overflowing your sump if the pump quits and it's not a sealed container so you can get some outside materials in it.  I honestly think a canister would just work better overall for only 2 tanks

[FishyMike]

I don’t really have the room for all that. So my plan B fingers crossed get a second tank drill a hole in the back and raise it about 3 inches higher then the large one. It will drain in to the larger then use the small pump to pump from the larger aquarium to the smaller?!?! So when the smaller one fills up it will drain into the larger one….. and if for some reason the pump stops working in theory it won’t drain the small tank because the hole will be at the top!

[FishyMike]

And to make it easier I found a 5 gallon acrillic tank at Petco so I won’t have to drill glass

[Patrick_G]

On 7/21/2021 at 3:36 PM, Mikeo said:

And to make it easier I found a 5 gallon acrillic tank at Petco so I won’t have to drill glass

I can’t wait to see this. I think it’s going to be pretty cool. 😀
 

also check out @Fish Folk’s thread on aquaponics. It has some good ideas for overhead sumps
 

     
 

[KentFishFanUK]

Don't want to be a party pooper obviously as it sounds like a fun system to try out but - is it like at all necessary? Why not just use the 5 gallon as a temporary breeding tank for your apisto pair or as a fry grow out tank to move eggs too? I'm pretty sure lots of people use small tanks for just that purpose and as long as you're testing etc as usual I don't think the water parameters are going to be all that unstable? Maybe I'm missing something here! I guess it would save you running an extra filter and heater but still. 

That being said, don't let me stop you as I like the idea of having a freshwater sump myself! If I had the space for it, though mine would be probably just for filtration. Maybe a live food refugium or something as well. Come to think of it a refugium is basically what you are describing and lots of marine people have those in their sumps so I probably am missing something here! 

[Torrey]

@Mikeo I use a similar principle, but do the water changes manually. I just wasn't able to find a method that adequately protected the fry. I would love to see your pictures if you do it, and will follow your thread to see how it works. 

Since I am going to have to do water changes after feeding because I don't have room to set up an automatic system (and I am one of those people who has a love/hate relationship with canisters), my fry float in betta cups with sponges to facilitate excellent water exchange, in a 10 gallon. Once a day, I do a 50% water change on the 10 gallon, with water I get from the larger tank, and then I top off the big tank (our tap water fluctuates horribly).

So far, I have a 95% success rate and fry survival rate. Sponge filter in the 10 gallon tank, and mini sponge filters in the betta cups. Betta cups primarily make it easier to count fry, and keep the fry from having to expend much energy looking for food the first 1 to 3 weeks. 

[FishyMike]

On 7/22/2021 at 12:06 AM, Torrey said:

@Mikeo I use a similar principle, but do the water changes manually. I just wasn't able to find a method that adequately protected the fry. I would love to see your pictures if you do it, and will follow your thread to see how it works. 

Since I am going to have to do water changes after feeding because I don't have room to set up an automatic system (and I am one of those people who has a love/hate relationship with canisters), my fry float in betta cups with sponges to facilitate excellent water exchange, in a 10 gallon. Once a day, I do a 50% water change on the 10 gallon, with water I get from the larger tank, and then I top off the big tank (our tap water fluctuates horribly).

So far, I have a 95% success rate and fry survival rate. Sponge filter in the 10 gallon tank, and mini sponge filters in the betta cups. Betta cups primarily make it easier to count fry, and keep the fry from having to expend much energy looking for food the first 1 to 3 weeks. 

THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!! thank you all of your advice!! the only reason it was a thought was because the the volume of water would help with water stability and i wouldnt really need to do a filter and heater because the main tank has that stuff! I will deffinitly let you guys know what i come up with!!

[Ben P.]

I do second the using the 5 gallon as a breeding/grow out tank.  I have a rack of 5.5s I use for fry grow out and they work great because in bigger tanks fry sometimes struggle to find the food so you end up heavily overfeeding just for them to find it.  You do have to water change them a lot.  I use a water change system I designed myself and it works great.  Just drill 2 bulkheads into each tank.  Have your hot and cold water lines going into a temperature regulating valve, set your regulating valve at whatever temp you want.  Have one bulkhead as a drain, the other as a fill.  I just use a bit of course filter foam to fill the ends of the bulkheads to keep fry out.  I just run mine on solenoids with switches to make everything semi automatic.  Basically you just hit the fill switch and it starts filling your tank up and the excess overflows into the drain bulkhead and out.  I will admit I have a bit of an advantage being a building management system controls engineer and could order the parts at cost from the company I work for but it could easily be figured out and makes life and fry grow out so much easier

[FishyMike]

I really do wish I had enough space (and a wife that would allow me to have a fish room)! haha so I pivoted again from my original idea I took a ride to petco on lunch and found a huge holding habitat (acrylic tank its about the width of the 20 long. that I think will work. in my mind im thinking it will work like a hang on breeder box. drill a hole for a small bulk head raise the box up over the 20 gallon about 3 inches and have it drain back and ill use the small pump I have to pull water from the 20 long. so my next hurdle how to raise the holding tank 3-4 inches decisions decisions. thank you again everyone i will let you know what i come up with! 

[Griznatch]

Looking forward to seeing how this turns out!

[the other Irene]

if you are willing to put the 5 gallon under the other tank you can use 1 pump and use the 5 gallon as a sump/fry tank.  they make external overflows so you do not have to drill.  I have this on my 100g.  you would need to put a net around the pump do you do not suck up the fry.  I used to do salt water/coral tanks so I have 2 tanks on sumps.  I put lights in the sump and grow frog bit to help control nitrates.  Essentially a freshwater refugium.

[FishyMike]

So far….

 

 

[FishyMike]

Next plan is to get either an inlet hose or a course sponge to fit in the drain pipe. Do people usually use substrate on the bottom or should I go bare bottom? I should take a poll

[Taco Playz]

I know I’m late but I love your wood.

[FishyMike]

Thank you!! I got it at a local place they called it ghost wood. It’s 2 peices.