3 Months No Cycle Need Help

[Jtrch38]

Need some expert help here. I am pretty well versed in planted aquariums, cycling, and keeping shrimp, but this one 20L tank is driving me insane. It still has not cycled in 3 months. I have successfully done 3 other fishless cycles in three other tanks that are thriving, so I’ve got good knowledge of the nitrogen cycle and things like that. This one here though 🤬. Everything thing seems to be growing nicely and looks healthy but tank just won’t process the ammonia.

PH 7.4
Ammonia 4ppm
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10
GH 179
KH 71.6
Temp 78

Eco complete planted substrate
Remineralized RO water
Planted
Fluval 207 canister filter with Biohome biomedia

Only difference in this and my other tanks is this has a canister filter and eco complete substrate. 
I have tried EVERYTHING. Biological booster, Dr Tim’s One and Only, Fluval Cycle, Tetra Safe Start, and Prime with Stability. Nothing works.
Test kits are good. API and FLUVAL.
Used old media from cycled tanks too, nothing.

Does ANYONE know why this cycle is not progressing?

[Phantom240]

Alright let's start with some basics. You obviously know how to fishless cycle, which is great. But what are you using for your ammonia source, and how are you calculating how much is going into the water column? If you're using remineralized RO, then it's safe to assume that you're not using any dechlorinators and such that can throw off your water parameter readings. Are you certain that there's nothing in your tank or your filter which has been treated with antimicrobial chemicals? I'm definitely not the expert on microbiology, but if I recall correctly, most fishless cycles are supposed to be dosed up to 2ppm ammonia, and I think I recall that at higher concentrations, it could actually hinder the bacteria. 

I'd recommend a 50% water change, and not feeding the tank further until ammonia starts to drop.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Phantom240

[Guppysnail]

Often if the ammonia is to high it kills good bacteria.  Dont quote me someone else who knows more (i dont use ammonia i snail/plant) will chime in

[Jtrch38]

On 7/17/2021 at 2:48 PM, Phantom240 said:

Alright let's start with some basics. You obviously know how to fishless cycle, which is great. But what are you using for your ammonia source, and how are you calculating how much is going into the water column? If you're using remineralized RO, then it's safe to assume that you're not using any dechlorinators and such that can throw off your water parameter readings. Are you certain that there's nothing in your tank or your filter which has been treated with antimicrobial chemicals? I'm definitely not the expert on microbiology, but if I recall correctly, most fishless cycles are supposed to be dosed up to 2ppm ammonia, and I think I recall that at higher concentrations, it could actually hinder the bacteria. 

I'd recommend a 50% water change, and not feeding the tank further until ammonia starts to drop.

Hi! Thanks for the response. I have used dechlorinator in the past in this tank. I always use Dr Tims ammonia to start my tanks. I started at 4ppm because the directions said I needed to get there. After over a month and a half, I read some stuff that said it should be 2 ppm. So I did a 75 percent water change and got it down to 2ppm. It stayed there for a while and is now creeping back up over a month later back to 4ppm.

[Jtrch38]

On 7/17/2021 at 2:58 PM, Jtrch38 said:

Hi! Thanks for the response. I have used dechlorinator in the past in this tank. I always use Dr Tims ammonia to start my tanks. I started at 4ppm because the directions said I needed to get there. After over a month and a half, I read some stuff that said it should be 2 ppm. So I did a 75 percent water change and got it down to 2ppm. It stayed there for a while and is now creeping back up over a month later back to 4ppm.

I have not added anymore ammonia in almost three months

[Phantom240]

Super helpful info! So you did a 75% change, which should have brought it down to 1ppm, but you said it read 2ppm, which leads me to believe that something is leaching ammonia into the water column. Furthermore, you said it's creeping back up, so obviously there's something wrong in this equation, as this is a fishless cycle and I assume there's no snails either. You have plants in that tank, yes? So they should be processing some of that ammonia as well, so long as there's sufficient other nutrients and light. I think we need to figure out why your ammonia is creeping up even though you're not adding any to the tank. Once that problem is solved, I think you'll find that the cycle is actually working, since you're reading nitrates. Did you ever at any point read nitrite?

 

[Phantom240]

I also use eco complete, so I can say that in my experiences, it does not leach ammonia, nor does it seem even possible given its makeup. 

[Jtrch38]

On 7/17/2021 at 3:03 PM, Phantom240 said:

I also use eco complete, so I can say that in my experiences, it does not leach ammonia, nor does it seem even possible given its makeup. 

Hi. I do have a couple nerite snails in there because the algae was OUT OF CONTROL. I use aquarium co op easy green fert in there too so maybe that’s the nitrates? Not sure. Here’s the REALLY weird part. On 4 separate occasions I saw the nitrite rise to .25 ppm and ammonia fell to 1ppm.The next day I would check, they were gone again and the ammonia would go back up to 2ppm! It’s almost like something is killing the nitrites before they can fully convert the ammonia. 

[Phantom240]

I would find that to be really unlikely. If you're dropping ammonia and producing nitrite, there's no really any way for it to convert back to ammonia. I know you added snails to combat algae, but what I would do in this situation is to remove the snails, stop fertilizing, and monitor the water daily, and add ammonia to 2ppm once it reaches zero. This will remove all variables and allow you to verify that the tank is or is not processing waste. Your plants will process some of the ammonia, so don't worry. So long as your tank is getting rid of ammonia and nitrite, its good. Doesn't matter if its bacterial or from the plants. 

 

[Jtrch38]

Ok I’ll give that a try. Thanks!

[Phantom240]

Good luck! And keep us posted on the results!

[Jtrch38]

Will do!

[Jtrch38]

Hello again. So I removed the snails from this tank and removed quite a bit of debris from just under the surface of my substrate. There was TONS of it! Brown stuff. Clouded up whole tank. Can’t imagine where all that gunk came from! Definitely not from one mystery snail I am thinking. I believe it is dead plant matter from a HUGE algae outbreak I had a while back. Anyways I also did another huge water change to get the ammonia down to 2ppm. Very strange because I did almost a 100 percent water change and still read 2ppm?? Weird. 
I wanted to ask, do you think adding Fritz Turbo would help? Also, I forgot to mention I added a second basket of the Biohome ultimate to my canister last week. Can I add the Fritz or should I leave alone? Thanks!