Ich?

[FredF]

Been treating ich for over a month.  First lifeguard then with ich-x then with API super ich cure.

if it’s truly ich it’s the toughest most resident ich ever 

[FredF]

On 8/5/2021 at 10:04 PM, Colu said:

It is possible you could have ich and epistylis as some of your fish have improved if your angelfish showed no signs of ick before they died I would be suspicious of a bacterial infection what I would do is another Course of super ick cure if that doesn't clear it up I would treat with kanaplex in food you will need seachems focus to act as a binding agent to mix with frozen food or pellets

I followed these instructions and started this treatment.  Do you feed this in lieu of normal feedings, or is this a once a day, I usually feed 2x a day.  I'm feeding as much as the fish can reasonably eat of the kanaplex food 1x a day.  Is that sufficient?

 

Thanks,

[Colu]

I would just feed the medicated food once a day if you give them normal feeding they will be less likely to eat the medicated food

[FredF]

On 8/11/2021 at 9:21 PM, Colu said:

I would just feed the medicated food once a day if you give them normal feeding they will be less likely to eat the medicated food

I have been doing this.  Unfortunately things have just gotten worse.  All but one angelfish is dead, cardinals are dying like crazy.  The medicated food seems to have no effect.  I am attaching a pic the worse fish, which has since died in the last hour.  I'm pretty much at a loss here.

I feel now perhaps to go back to ich treatment (ICH-X or API) crank the heat up to 85-86 and see where that goes?  Right now I only have ICH-X, but its effectiveness was limited, but I also wasn't losing any fish.  I am going to turn the lights down further shorten the photo period, since I heard light can effect the medication ingredients.  

The second pic caught my eye.  My Rummynose tetras have all been clear of any spots for a while, but this one here in comparison to the other looks like it is wasting away, and seems to be having some problems keeping up with the school.  I don't know if this is a sign of anything in particular, but I thought I would point it out if it might be another clue.

The water parameters have always been good when I measure them every few days.

I'm up for any more suggestions.

Thanks,

 

[Colu]

Sorry.to hear your losing fish you could keep feeding  the medicated food   and you can treat with paraguard at the same time for ich in the water column or ick x and kanaplex together or you could just retreat with ick x and increase the temperature the sick rummy nose tetra could have internal parasites looking at the picture and the symptoms you describe it's a difficult one I would have expected ich to be cured with the meds you have used and the  length time you have been treating  as it been going on for over a month 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Colu

[FredF]

On 8/16/2021 at 7:47 PM, Colu said:

Sorry.to hear your losing fish you could keep feeding  the medicated food   and you can treat with paraguard at the same time for ich in the water column i can't find any information on whether you can use ick x and kanaplex together or you could just retreat with ick x and increase the temperature the sick rummy nose tetra could have internal parasites looking at the picture and the symptoms you describe it's a difficult one I would have expected ich to be cured with the meds you have used and the  length time you have been treating  as it been going on for over a month 

I just came across some information that ICH-X does not recommend Seachem Prime as a water conditioner when treating.  Also I found this same information on Seachem's website as well.  Could this be the issue?  I have always used Prime as a water conditioner.

 

 

[Colu]

On 8/18/2021 at 4:55 PM, FredF said:

just came across some information that ICH-X does not recommend Seachem Prime as a water conditioner when treating.  Also I found this same information on Seachem's website as well.  Could this be the issue?  I have always used Prime as a water conditioner.

Prime is sulfainate based can lessen the effectiveness of  some medications some people have treat with ick x and prime said they haven't had problems I always air on the side of caution API stress coat is fine to use with ick x 

[FredF]

On 8/18/2021 at 1:16 PM, Colu said:

Prime is sulfainate based can lessen the effectiveness of  some medications some people have treat with ick x and prime said they haven't had problems I always air on the side of caution API stress coat is fine to use with ick x 

Thanks, I tend to add 2 caps when I change 50+ percent the water in the tank 75g.  Prime is 1 cap per 50g, so I could be overdosing prime which in the case could be causing a problem.   I will get stress coat and use that going forward.

[Mmiller2001]

Ich doesn't kill fish like what you are describing. If you have been treating ich for over a month it would be dead. 

I have used Kanaplex and ich x together. In fact, I use Kanaplex over maracyn in my modified trio.

If you are losing fish like crazy, my guess is columnaris.

I would add Furan 2 to Kanaplex.

[FredF]

On 8/18/2021 at 2:53 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Ich doesn't kill fish like what you are describing. If you have been treating ich for over a month it would be dead. 

I have used Kanaplex and ich x together. In fact, I use Kanaplex over maracyn in my modified trio.

If you are losing fish like crazy, my guess is columnaris.

I would add Furan 2 to Kanaplex.

I am still feeding the kanaplex food per the recipe.   Here are the latest pics.  Still looks like ICH.  If you think it is something else please let me know.  I suppose it could be multiple items, hence why I am also using the kanaplex.

[Mmiller2001]

https://aquariumscience.org/index.php/10-2-4-epistylis/

[FredF]

Thanks for this info.  I have reviewed this in detail.  I have been continuing to treat with Kanaplex (in food) and Ich-X, using Stress Coat instead of Prime as the dechlorinater  The results have been mixed.  The remaining fish (cardinal tetras) seem to be clearing up and getting better or not getting worse, they eat ravenously, even those with visible symptoms.  However, my last angelfish is probably going to pass.  It is unable to swim at this point, and has refused to eat even with adding garlic guard to the medicated food.  The angel, had no visible symptoms of white spot. 

A follow up question is how long should I treat with the medicated food? I noticed the Kanaplex directions indicate 3 doses, but I suspect that is for direct medication, but I wanted to confirm.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by FredF

[Colu]

I would feed the medicated food for 7 days and then give them a rest from the meds before treating again have your angelfish got a sunken belly and  have they been passing anything 

[FredF]

I have not seen anything passed here are the pics.  I was going to put the fish down with Clove oil because he is unable to swim, but he seems to have a lot of kick left.  Not sure what else I can do.  Outwardly the fish does not look too bad

 

[Colu]

I would recommend trying epsom salt bath 1 table spoon for 2 gallons for no more than 15 minutes 2-3 times a day 

[FredF]

Thank you everyone.  Everything is now under control.  I think the combination of the Kanaplex and using the ICH-X without prime helped, and the fish that passed on were just too far gone.   The remaining fish have cleared up.  I lost 10 Cardinals, 5 angels, two platies and one rummynose.  My 2 SAE's were unaffected and are much larger and fatter, the two otos were fine, all 9 corys survived as well as my bristlenose pleco.  I have 12 cardinals and 9 Rummynose remaining overall.  Its a 75 gallon tank.

I still do not really know what caused it and whenever I tested the water, the quality always seemed spot on.  I can't rule out a problem because I did not test daily.  My lights which were at 90% are now at 30%.  Maybe too much lighting stress the fish out, but that seems unlikely.  The Seachem ammonia monitor I have has never read anything other than zero.  Current results with API test kits are:

1. ORP Meter - Redox 202

2. PH 7.0

3. Ammonia 0

4. Nitrite 0

5. Nitrate - Virtually 0 on API test kit, definitely lower than 5

6. P04 - at most .5 ppm

Maybe I either added to many fish too soon, or the petsmart fish I added brought it in.  I did use API Quick Start as well.  The tank was also heavy planted, so I think that would mitigate water problems as well.

I bought a 10 gallon, and a sponge filter which I have in my small 5 gallon tank simply to get seeded so I can use it in a Quarantine tank.  I am never adding any fish directly again after this ordeal.  I'm hoping by the time the sponge filter has sufficient beneficial bacteria, I can start adding fish again and try this out slowly.

I feel like a tank this size could house some angelfish in addition to what I current have with no huge deal?  Any thoughts on what could have gone wrong or if there was any else I can do would be appreciated.