Puffer dentistry question

[SWilson]

For folks with amazon puffers in particular, the internet will have you expecting to trim their teeth every six months.  

Is this something that should be done prophylactically? Or only if one has a problem eating?  I feed them snails regularly -- though I'm not always able to get snails small enough so they often just yank the snail out of the shell rather than crunching down.  I see one (out of my group of 6) in particular that has a fairly long tooth, but he/she can still eat fine.  

My instinct is to not do anything as long as the fish can still eat to avoid inflicting unnecessary stress on the animal, but wondering what other puffer keepers do in practice.  

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by SWilson

[Streetwise]

Paging @Cory for fish dentistry!

[Odd Duck]

@SWilson I don’t have large enough puffers to need teeth filed, but I’ve filed a lot of teeth on rabbits and Guinea pigs (they also have continually growing teeth) and beaks on birds.  If you wait too long to file after noticing an issue, you increased stress and thereby can trigger immune suppression for the animal.  I don’t know if it happens on puffers, but overgrown teeth on mammals and birds can cause mandibular joint issues, push teeth (or beak) out of alignment within the jaw, and eventually increase the need for trimming.  Trimming and adjusting alignment in a timely manner can actually spread out the time between needed trimming.

I hope someone speaks up that has experience specific to puffers, since I’m inferring from experience with other species plus knowledge of anatomy and physiology in general.

[SWilson]

Wow @Odd Duck thank you for sharing your experience -- that is really interesting.  There are often parallels between species, so I wouldn't be surprised if your experience translated to puffer fish.  

[Cory]

I recommend shelled foods, and not doing dentistry unless needed.

[shkote]

I have had to trim mine a couple of times when he was younger. Eventually, he figured out how to file his own and now uses rocks in the tank as well as snails to keep them down himself. I have a large Seiyru stone in there that he prefers to grind his teeth on. You get lucky with some of them. 

[SWilson]

Thanks all! This is so very helpful.  @shkote I suspect my other ones are doing that because their teeth do not seem overgrown at all, though I've never seen them do it.   How long have you had yours?  I've only had mine for about 8 months.  They were quite small when I got them and they are not yet full size so I think they're still juveniles.  

[Colu]

You can feed clams as well as the snails to help wear down there teeth

[shkote]

About a year and a half or so. His teeth grew very quick when he wasn't grinding it down on rocks, no matter how many snails he ate. To encourage them to grind on rocks, you can spread some repashy on it for them to eat. Sometimes it takes awhile to get then to eat the repashy, but once they figure out it's food, spreading it on the rocks is a good way to get them to figure out that they can grind their own teeth down. 

[Tw snacks]

@Cory what shelled foods do you recommend for their mouth size (Amazon puffer)? Seems like they just bite meat out of many options which doesn’t seem to help with their teeth. Anything that can be bought at Asian food market when I’m running low on snails?

[Schwack]

I've been terrified of this ever since I picked up my Amazon puffers. None of mine have teeth growing out of control... yet, but I'm nervous that it's only a matter of time. I tried getting them on manila clams, but they were only interested if I pulled the meat off the shell for them. Leaving a halfshell in there for them to scrape clean didn't go well. I'm planning to try some crab legs next, or maybe some large shrimp? What variety of Repashy have people had success with? I've had very little luck with any of my fish and the community blend, so I'm a bit hesitant to pick up another $16 bottle of food I won't be able to feed out.

[SWilson]

I did try trimming one of my amazon puffers.  I used Tricaine, but I don't think I used enough.  I was scared and I couldn't find very clear information about dosing.  The directions that come with the bottle were for commercial use, and it was a bit difficult to try to convert the dosage down to a single fish in a tupperware container.  Because the fish was not fully sedated, the trimming was very difficult too.  Much harder to get the cuticle trimmers on the tiny tooth than I thought.  In the end we were both traumatized. lol.  I don't mean to worry you more, I think I got worried and trimmed when I didn't need to.  

That is the one time I've had to even try to trim though, now coming on a year with six amazon puffers.  I have just left them alone and just increased the # of snails I'm breeding so I always have small ones, the lack of which was my problem before.  I unfortunately mostly have ramshorns, which are the ones that the puffers easily snatch out of the shell.  With bladder snails, I do see the puffers take the whole shell in their mouth.  My puffers ignored clam on a half shell and freeze-dried krill.  

I did try the repashy on a rock (I use soilent green mixed with bottom scratcher) but because I keep a lot of endlers in the tank with the puffers, I suspect that the endlers ate it all.  I haven't had a chance to re-try this again.  I also feed my puffers with frozen food using tweezers, so I can confirm that each of them is eating.  Their little bellies are helpful -- you can immediately see if they're getting food in or not.

For what it's worth, when I bought them, the LFS guy said that there are many people who keep them who never have to trim their teeth, but you don't hear about that because they're not fishtubers.  He could've just been saying that to get the sale, but they are a pretty reputable store that's beeen around a very long time.  There are many things in fishkeeping lore that get said once or twice and then are just repeated over and over -- "you'll have to trim your puffer's teeth every six months" could be one of those things.  Though it's not bad for anyone planning to keep them to prepare themselves for that. 

Good luck @Schwack with your puffers! We should keep in touch and compare notes!  

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by SWilson

[Schwack]

On 12/2/2021 at 11:08 AM, SWilson said:

I did try trimming one of my amazon puffers.  I used Tricaine, but I don't think I used enough.  I was scared and I couldn't find very clear information about dosing.  The directions that come with the bottle were for commercial use, and it was a bit difficult to try to convert the dosage down to a single fish in a tupperware container.  Because the fish was not fully sedated, the trimming was very difficult too.  Much harder to get the cuticle trimmers on the tiny tooth than I thought.  In the end we were both traumatized. lol.  I don't mean to worry you more, I think I got worried and trimmed when I didn't need to.  

That is the one time I've had to even try to trim though, now coming on a year with six amazon puffers.  I have just left them alone and just increased the # of snails I'm breeding so I always have small ones, the lack of which was my problem before.  I unfortunately mostly have ramshorns, which are the ones that the puffers easily snatch out of the shell.  With bladder snails, I do see the puffers take the whole shell in their mouth.  My puffers ignored clam on a half shell and freeze-dried krill.  

I did try the repashy on a rock (I use soilent green mixed with bottom scratcher) but because I keep a lot of endlers in the tank with the puffers, I suspect that the endlers ate it all.  I haven't had a chance to re-try this again.  I also feed my puffers with frozen food using tweezers, so I can confirm that each of them is eating.  Their little bellies are helpful -- you can immediately see if they're getting food in or not.

For what it's worth, when I bought them, the LFS guy said that there are many people who keep them who never have to trim their teeth, but you don't hear about that because they're not fishtubers.  He could've just been saying that to get the sale, but they are a pretty reputable store that's beeen around a very long time.  There are many things in fishkeeping lore that get said once or twice and then are just repeated over and over -- "you'll have to trim your puffer's teeth every six months" could be one of those things.  Though it's not bad for anyone planning to keep them to prepare themselves for that. 

Good luck @Schwack with your puffers! We should keep in touch and compare notes!  

 

Definitely! I'm terrified of having to trim their tiny teeth. I've watched a few video on it and it looks... unpleasant. I'll update whenever I manage to get a crab leg. I think they'll go for that. Mine won't even sniff freeze dried krill. They want frozen or nothing, but they go like absolute hogs when I put it in the tank. Watching them play tug of war with a chunk of krill is a lot of fun. My pearl gourami have even gotten in on the krill action, but they don't seem to care for it.

[SWilson]

On 12/2/2021 at 9:26 PM, Schwack said:

They want frozen or nothing

Yes! Mine love snails or frozen anything (and especially bloodworms), but that's about it.  I have occaisionally (and only very recently) seen them pecking at algae wafers I toss in there for the plecos, but I think it's only because they saw the endlers eating it lol