Can someone help me with an ich diagnosis? Getting much worse.

[Donkey]

Can someone help me confirm whether this is ich for sure or not?  I have been treating with Ich X for around 5-6 days now and the condition has only got much worse in that time.  I sent the photos to a vet acquaintance and he said he thought it could only be ich or velvet from the pics and the treatment would be the same either way.  

I had what appeared to be ich in a few of my other tanks that went away after 1 or 2 doses of ich x.   I believe I spread it because I moved some fish around for aggression reasons before I noticed any spots.   I continued treating for a few days to make sure it was gone and it hasn't returned in those tanks.  This was the last tank to develop the symptoms.  However, so far the condition keeps getting worse every day in spite of the same treatment.  The spots look the same as the other tanks that had them, but they are much worse in this one.  I have been doing daily water changes with the treatments for the past week or so.  I am seeking some advice because I have kept fish for 30 years, but I have never had ich that has progressed this far in spite of treatment.    

This is a 40 gallon breeder that is set up as a quarantine tank.    There are 5 oscars, 1 clown knife, 1 royal pleco, 1 fire eel, and 1 silver arowana.  I have only had these fish for a couple of weeks.  They are all very small still and will be moving to a 500 gallon tank once they have some size.  There is no substrate in the tank, but there are some pvc pipes and potted plants, and a couple of pieces of lava rock.  There is a heater and an aquarium coop large sponge filter in the tank with an air stone.  

Water parameters:

NO2 and NO3: 0 (daily water changes), ph: 7.2, GH: around 8d, no chlorine detected.  Temp has been around 78 degrees.  I recently raised it to 80 degrees.  Many more spots appeared after raising the temp slightly.  I have been reluctant to raise the temp further because that is the only thing that has given me negative results in the past from what I can tell.  

As I mentioned, I have been treating with Ich X daily with the recommended dose and conditioning the water with Ultimate as recommended to avoid the sulphur reaction.  These fish also went through a treatment of PraziPro.  I also thought about trying salt, but was strongly advised against it by the vet and a couple friends who thought some of the fish would be too sensitive, especially with the progression.  

I am hoping someone can give me some advice on anything else I can be doing.   I have only been doing 1 dose a day because of the clown knife and the eel.    The only thing I can think of is to do more treatments a day and hope for the best.  Any help would be appreciated. 

 

Edited May 30, 2021 by Donkey

[quikv6]

Perhaps it's epystylis, which can be easily confused with ich.

[Donkey]

12 minutes ago, quikv6 said:

Perhaps it's epystylis, which can be easily confused with ich.

Thank you for the response.  I just texted my vet friend about it possibly being epistylis.   He said he didn't think it would be that because generally epistylis is more localized than ich and presents itself slightly differently in color and appearance.  He said it was possible, but he didn't think so.  

I do have some Kanaplex on hand so I may try a treatment of that to see if the condition improves.  The vet didn't think there would be a med interaction with kanaplex and ich x, but he couldn't be sure.   Has anyone used Kanaplex with Ich x?  

From what I read it works better mixed with food, but they aren't eating very well right now.  I might try cutting some shrimp up really small and mixing it with that to get them to take it.  

Thanks again for the suggestion. 

[Colu]

It could be epistylis or you might have  to try a different ich med sometimes you can get ich that won't respond to a treatment i would treat  with kanaplex in food then  you can use seachem paraguard in the water for the ich to cover all bases you can only use the two together if your feeding Kanaplex in food  @Donkey

Edited May 30, 2021 by Colu

[Donkey]

34 minutes ago, Colu said:

It could be epistylis or you might have  to try a different ich med sometimes you can get ich that won't respond to a treatment i would treat  with kanaplex in food then  you can use seachem paraguard in the water for the ich to cover all bases you can only use the two together if your feeding Kanaplex in food  @Donkey

Thanks for the suggestions.  So I can only use kanaplex with paraguard?    Unfortunately, I don't have any paraguard and nobody around here carries it.  Amazon says it can get to me tomorrow so I might give it a try.  The only meds available locally that look like they have different ingredients is API super ick cure which I have never used before.  

 

Thanks again for the help.

[Colu]

From what I have read kanaplex and paraguard are safe to use together that what I would use  am not sure about using kanaplex API super ick cure together

[Donkey]

20 minutes ago, Colu said:

From what I have read kanaplex and paraguard are safe to use together that what I would use  am not sure about using kanaplex API super ick cure together

Thanks again for the help.  I went ahead and ordered the Paraguard, and I will hold out for it to arrive tomorrow.  I will probably change out the water today and go ahead try a course of the kanaplex.  Then add the Paraguard once it arrives tomorrow.  

It would be sort of a strange coincidence to have what appears to be epistylis and ich develop within a day or so of each other in tanks that shared fish.  However, this tank is the newest of the affected tanks which would also be favorable to epistylis from what I understand.  So I guess that can be fairly normal. 

Thanks again for the advice in another course to try. 

[Mmiller2001]

With the spots on his eyes, I would say this is Epistylis. Dose Kanaplex orally. Clean the water.

https://aquariumscience.org/index.php/10-2-4-epistylis/

[Donkey]

1 hour ago, Mmiller2001 said:

With the spots on his eyes, I would say this is Epistylis. Dose Kanaplex orally. Clean the water.

https://aquariumscience.org/index.php/10-2-4-epistylis/

Thanks, I am starting Kanaplex today.   I spoke longer with the vet, and he agreed treating for both would be a good option.  However, he is a little surprised by the appearance.   He thought I would be able to see more extension from the body with epistylis.  Under magnification the spots look like flat round discs.  He said he has seen ich on the eyes enough to not be entirely surprised by it.  Of course, he couldn't say for sure without a sample.  

I am not quite sure what you mean by clean the water. This tank has never gone longer than two days without a water change and over the last week the water changes have been every day.  Unless you mean get all of the current medicine out, then yes, I plan on changing the water first.    

 

Thanks again.