I'm having a hard time picking out a substrate

[Byron]

I have been running a dirted tank with a pool filter sand cap, but I am going to tear it down and start over. I am going to go with a heavily planted tank with a Fluval 3.0 light and a new substrate. The problem is that I really like the look of the pool filter sand and the smoothness of it for Kuhli Loachs and such, but have read that it is not great for growing plants.

I don't want to go the route of having to replace my substrate because the nutrients are depleted, so I plan on using  inert material and supplementing with fert and root tabs. 

I'd like a sand like substrate that doesn't break my budget and will be good for bottom feeders and plants.

Any suggestions are most appreciated.

Thank you!

 

[Skroob]

You will either need to mix multiple substrates to get the consistency you want. Or look into using a soil " system " such as Contosoil which has 3 sizes of regular , fine, and ultra fine. The more planted tank geared substrates will cost you a lot more than say mixing gravel, plant substrate, and sand together. 

[Pete]

I've found I like growing plants in sand way more than using fancy substrates like EcoComplete. The sand is so much easier to work in and holds new plants with weaker root structures better than coarser materials out there. It's also 10x easier to get Easy Root Tabs placed in sandy substrates with simple planting tweezers.

Pool filter sand really really is the best option I think. A second choice would be blasting sand which is cheap but coarser. Third choice is what I used; big box pet store brand black aquarium sand. It still didn't break the bank. 

[ChefConfit]

I would do ecocomplete capped with sand. I like play sand over pool filter sand because it's more natural looking imo pool filter sand is too white. The darker collier also helps hide the mulm if you prefer to keep it in I stead of gravel vacing. Some people feel that allowing your bottom dwellers to stir the mulm into the substrate helps replenish it so you don't need to add root tabs or change out the substrate. I'm actually just lazy so I'm gonna find out if it actually works

[Streetwise]

What makes you think your nutrients are depleted?

Check out Walstad, VIII. G. 5.

[Diego]

1 hour ago, Byron said:

I don't want to go the route of having to replace my substrate because the nutrients are depleted

I fail to see the logic in this. You don't want ending up with a depleted substrate, so you start with one already depleted and work around it.

May I ask what was wrong with your dirted tank?

[StephenP2003]

2 hours ago, Byron said:

I have been running a dirted tank with a pool filter sand cap, but I am going to tear it down and start over. I am going to go with a heavily planted tank with a Fluval 3.0 light and a new substrate. The problem is that I really like the look of the pool filter sand and the smoothness of it for Kuhli Loachs and such, but have read that it is not great for growing plants.

I don't want to go the route of having to replace my substrate because the nutrients are depleted, so I plan on using  inert material and supplementing with fert and root tabs. 

I'd like a sand like substrate that doesn't break my budget and will be good for bottom feeders and plants.

Any suggestions are most appreciated.

Thank you!

 

Check out @Bentley Pascoeon YouTube. He's been doing a series on substrate and does pretty in depth explanations on the pros and cons of different types, including kitty litter of all things. 

[Byron]

21 hours ago, Diego said:

I fail to see the logic in this. You don't want ending up with a depleted substrate, so you start with one already depleted and work around it.

May I ask what was wrong with your dirted tank?

Nothing was wrong with my dirted tank. I just want to try going with more light and better selection of plants. With my dirted tank I had to go with low light or else the algae would go nuts. The reason for an inert substrate is that I would rather supplement with fert as opposed to having to redo the substrate once it is depleted. I also want to have clear water, which was hard to achieve with a dirted tank.

[Byron]

21 hours ago, Streetwise said:

What makes you think your nutrients are depleted?

Check out Walstad, VIII. G. 5.

 

21 hours ago, Streetwise said:

What makes you think your nutrients are depleted?

Check out Walstad, VIII. G. 5.

It is not completely depleted. I put in some wisteria lately and it rooted really quickly and is doing well. I've ran the tank for about five years, so I am sure its getting towards the end of its cycle. The main reason for the change is that I would like to try something new with higher light.

[Brandy]

18 minutes ago, Byron said:

With my dirted tank I had to go with low light or else the algae would go nuts. 

It sounds like you were FAR from depleted, it was more that you had too many nutrients and had to keep light low to manage algae. I have not had trouble with clarity in a dirted tank with a thick sand cap, not have I had trouble with algae, but I stepped my lighting up slowly, waiting for the plants to catch up. I am not trying to convince you to go with dirt--I only have it in one tank, but I do really love it. I do not love eco complete, my vals, lilies, lotuses, and crypts like it though--not so much fragile roots, and it is annoying to plant it to me. ADA amazonia is highway robbery, but works ok for a monte carlo carpet, and is a little easier to plant in.

If you are looking to have a more precisely controlled nutrient load then going with an inert substrate makes sense, I think you have the best solution right in front of you--use the sand you like, and mix in a larger particle sand or small gravel in the bottom layer where your dirt currently is. You don't say what size tank this is, but economical options include regular aquarium gravel from a big box store, or play sand from building supply stores. I think once you go inert, you are really just looking for a particular look with at least some variation of particle size, best accomplished by mixing.

[Byron]

1 minute ago, Brandy said:

It sounds like you were FAR from depleted, it was more that you had too many nutrients and had to keep light low to manage algae. I have not had trouble with clarity in a dirted tank with a thick sand cap, not have I had trouble with algae, but I stepped my lighting up slowly, waiting for the plants to catch up. I am not trying to convince you to go with dirt--I only have it in one tank, but I do really love it. I do not love eco complete, my vals, lilies, lotuses, and crypts like it though--not so much fragile roots, and it is annoying to plant it to me. ADA amazonia is highway robbery, but works ok for a monte carlo carpet, and is a little easier to plant in.

If you are looking to have a more precisely controlled nutrient load then going with an inert substrate makes sense, I think you have the best solution right in front of you--use the sand you like, and mix in a larger particle sand or small gravel in the bottom layer where your dirt currently is. You don't say what size tank this is, but economical options include regular aquarium gravel from a big box store, or play sand from building supply stores. I think once you go inert, you are really just looking for a particular look with at least some variation of particle size, best accomplished by mixing.

Hi Brandy,

Its a 55 gallon. I was actually toying with the idea of mixing my sand with larger particles. Thank you!

[David Ellsworth]

If you are looking for a high light aquarium you might want to seer clear of inert substrates. You might be able to make it work with a lot of ferts and tons of root tabs, but active substrate will allow plants to spread out faster. 

Also if you are using high light you may run into plants getting deficiencies and not growing well or starving to death with inert substrates. Most of the time when people use high light they are dosing CO2 because your plants will rapidly deplete what your fish produce and then not grow well or die off.

I know someone mentioned Bentley Pascoe already and he does several in depth videos on the benefits of all the different types of substrates inert, active, nutrient absorbing stuff like eco complete. He really provides a lot of good info on this subject. 

I know dirted plant tanks can go for 8-10 years or more if you've reached a balance with fish stocking to provide enough fish waste/food to keep the soil enriched. But if you are looking to try something new then high light and CO2 with an active substrate may be what you are looking for. 

[Byron]

Hi David,

I appreciate your advice. It really helps. I am not ready to get into CO2, but maybe down the road. I will check out Bentley Pasco's videos. Thank you!

 

[Bill Smith]

For what it's worth, I went through a bunch of different substrates recently, and one thing I must say I'm a big fan of, is finer grain products. Not as fine as sand, but very fine gravel or coarse sand makes planting SOOOOOO much easier. Jam the item in the substrate, and the grains just fall into place to support it.

All my future tanks are coarse sand. Don't care about substrate nutrients, because the root tabs are much easier to deposit as a result.

And unless you're turning the light down, black is NEVER black.

Bill

Edited September 17, 2020 by Bill Smith

[ADMWNDSR83]

Just to chime in without a lot of wisdom, I personally went with black diamond blasting sand.  More coarse than sand, yet still a pretty fine substrate. I love the look, my plants are doing great, and I got a 50 lb bag for under $10.  It's black coal slag.  After rinsing, I had no clarity issues or anything, and my cories seem to love it.

[Leo2o915]

I would do eco complete with a sand cap or eco complete with stratum get the best of both worlds 

[ChemBob]

I see aot of folks talking about coarse sand. What types of sand would be considered coarse? At what point is it gravel vs sand?

[Bill Smith]

20 minutes ago, ChemBob said:

I see aot of folks talking about coarse sand. What types of sand would be considered coarse? At what point is it gravel vs sand?

I think that's going to be very subjective, and the names are going to vary. For me, I would say grains around 1-2mm are just about perfect. I can still see individual grains at 3-4 feet distance. 🙂

Some people would call that fine gravel. Others coarse sand.

Edited September 17, 2020 by Bill Smith

[Leo2o915]

28 minutes ago, Bill Smith said:

I think that's going to be very subjective, and the names are going to vary. For me, I would say grains around 1-2mm are just about perfect. I can still see individual grains at 3-4 feet distance. 🙂

Some people would call that fine gravel. Others coarse sand.

For apistos in a 15 fluval flex planted debating caribsea or stratum 

[ADMWNDSR83]

44 minutes ago, ChemBob said:

I see aot of folks talking about coarse sand. What types of sand would be considered coarse? At what point is it gravel vs sand?

I would think, if it's too small for me to consider the individual pieces rocks, then it's sand.  Blasting medium...sand.  Tiny stones... gravel.

[Andy's Fish Den]

My go to for planted tanks is a 50/50 mix of eco-complete and fluval stratum. you could even do a mix of this and cap it with some sand if you desire, a black blasting sand would blend right in. 

[Amy Swanstrom]

15 hours ago, ADMWNDSR83 said:

Just to chime in without a lot of wisdom, I personally went with black diamond blasting sand.  More coarse than sand, yet still a pretty fine substrate. I love the look, my plants are doing great, and I got a 50 lb bag for under $10.  It's black coal slag.  After rinsing, I had no clarity issues or anything, and my cories seem to love it.

Glad to hear this, I just put blasting sand in my 75 and a lot of plants, eventually my cories as well.   Took me a bit to rinse it well, but so worth it. 

[yannachka]

one of my favorite substrates is a mix of fluval stratum and fluorite (i use dark). the two combine to make a great texture and a pretty natural look. it’s pretty easy to plant in as well, you just really need to rinse the fluorite well.

[Casual aquatics]

On 9/16/2020 at 2:20 PM, Byron said:

Hi Brandy,

Its a 55 gallon. I was actually toying with the idea of mixing my sand with larger particles. Thank you!

i have a sand gravel mix in my 55 only thing is no plants in that cause its a cichlid tank also have bichir in there he enjoys the soft smooth surface. but i have a 46 gal bow with plants and believe it or not its got a sand/dirt mix and then patches bare bottom obviously my plants are in the soiled/sand section and i used that black blasting sand that @Pete mentioned get 50lbs for like 20 bucks at hardware store 

[Bentley Pascoe]

Busy thread!  If you don't mind me putting in my two American pesos here...

You can combine a LOT of things for various results.  If budget is a concern I highly encourage more people to look into Safe-T-Sorb.  It looks nice, and when charged (literally just let it sit in a tub with enough water to cover it all and pour in a BUNCH of fertilizer... like a half a bottle of easy green or a 10+ root tabs, then let it sit and soak for a couple weeks) you can get some very long term growth.  Just make sure you rinse the stuff really, really well before the soaking process to help get it clean.

I personally prefer active substrates, specifically aquasoils like Fluval Stratum, Brightwell Rio Escuro, ADA Amazonia etc etc, because I'm so used to what I get from them and how to plant in them.  You don't NEED to do this route, I just look at it as the shortcut version of something like mineralized top soil or charged safe-T-sorb without the work and potential negative side effects.

In the end, if you like the look of sands, try looking at something like the caribsea naturals peace river - its a really fine sized gravel that has a semi-sandy appearance, but it's just coarse enough to act as a nice cap without risking compaction.

As many have mentioned, I have an on-going series I call Substrate 101 on my YouTube channel which I would highly encourage watching (clearly, I have no bias... 😅) and thank you to those whom suggested it earlier, but in the end, research is your best friend. Be willing to explore a LOT of options to find what will be best for you and your schedule of maintenance.  Just because someone like me will say "I use X, it's the best!" doesn't mean that will be the same for you.  There are plenty of people who preach one substrate over another and I prefer people look at every option, understand the pros and cons, then decide based on their water, goals, routine and budget.