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The saga of new aquarist and struggling plants


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I would love any advice as I think I'm at a breaking point with my tank and I don't want it to...well, tank. (har har). 

Context: Set up is almost 2 months old. 5gal fluval with stock light, 10 hours of light per day on timer. The back and sides of the tank have black window film, so there is very minimal ambient light. Live stock: 1 betta, 5 harlequin rasboras, a handful of shrimp and snails.

Parameters: temp 80F, nitrites 0/ammonia 0/nitrate 0-20/phosphate 0-0.5/pH 7.2-7.4. I dose easy green and easy iron once weekly. I do a 20-30%water change every 7-10 days pending my life schedule. I do not have an air stone, but the flow from the filter is pretty strong.

Plants: redroot floaters (about 40% water surface coverage), vallisneria, anubias nana, crypts, christmas moss, and a big ol' pile of loma fern (new as of a few days ago). 

What I have noticed is that initially the plants were thriving and growing new leaves, lengthening, etc. The floaters were growing new leaves, but there were many holes in the bigger leaves and the floaters over all don't look very healthy. However, as of the last week, I'm noticing the anubias leaves yellowing, the moss is 80% brown, the val is turning a yellowish color and growing hair algae and the leaves are ripping, and the crypts leaves seem to be dying off one by one. The fish, however, seem to be happy and thriving. 

The photo attached is pre-sad plants. I can attach some more of the sad plants when I get home. 

My thought is that I need more fertilizer and/or light, but I'm so scared of an algae bloom. I just do not know how to decide when it's time to dose more fertilizer and tbh I don't have the time or resources to get much more"advanced" with this tank in terms of fertilizing.

Thanks in advance.

PXL_20210507_190519169.jpg

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What light do you have? You have room to dose more. You can use your Nitrates as a target. You can push it up to 25-30ppm. Sounds like you may have a bit of a potassium deficiency and adding a little more will not hurt. If the light is too bright, you will have algae everywhere. A few spots here and there is normal, it's when it goes "nuts" is when you would have too much light.

Easy Iron is EDTA, so you lock some out at a pH above 7.0, so adding a bit more will not hurt either. You could also try splitting your doses, so add half after a water change, then the other half a few days later. Split your Easy Green and Iron dosing, so 1 day Easy Green the next day Easy Iron.

This table can help you dose to 25-30ppm

East Green Crop.jpg

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@Mmiller2001 this is super helpful! That was my thought, about trying to follow the nitrates. I guess I just worry I'm missing another nutrient and I think your theory on the K+ is probably accurate. I have the stock LED light (the light has 35 white LED’s and two blue LED’s) that came with the tank and I have worried it's too dark. If I get a stronger light, should I worry about "burning" the floater plants? Also, I'm OK with some algae as I think my other critters would like that. Right now there is very minimal algae.

Lastly, I just want to confirm the chart dosing....1 pump of easy green in my 5 gallon on day of water change results in 0 nitrates 7 days later. This week I tried a mid week dose and two days later my nitrates were 20. I'm just a bit confused on how that translates to that chart with the NO3 line.

Seriously, thank you!!

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The light on the Fluval Flex seems very good to me and I agree with @Mmiller2001, you might be lacking in some nutrients like potassium or Iron. 

I’ll also add that tanks can go through some growing pains. We’re not all great at growing every plant, but give it some time and you’ll probably find plants that do well for you. You’ll also find some plants have a longer acclimation period than others. 

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19 minutes ago, Ponyoryx said:

@Mmiller2001 this is super helpful! That was my thought, about trying to follow the nitrates. I guess I just worry I'm missing another nutrient and I think your theory on the K+ is probably accurate. I have the stock LED light (the light has 35 white LED’s and two blue LED’s) that came with the tank and I have worried it's too dark. If I get a stronger light, should I worry about "burning" the floater plants? Also, I'm OK with some algae as I think my other critters would like that. Right now there is very minimal algae.

Lastly, I just want to confirm the chart dosing....1 pump of easy green in my 5 gallon on day of water change results in 0 nitrates 7 days later. This week I tried a mid week dose and two days later my nitrates were 20. I'm just a bit confused on how that translates to that chart with the NO3 line.

Seriously, thank you!!

I have not experienced any problems with a brighter light on floaters. But your results could be different, but my bet is it's no problem.

1 pump in your 5 gallon tank would add about 4.5ppm nitrate to the tank. I always test nitrates after my water change then add back to the tank. I'm trying to keep 25 to 30ppm in my tanks. This includes my low tech tanks.

 

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I have also not had issues burning floaters with bright light. I have red root floaters that seem to be doing just fine directly under my light. I'm not familiar with the Flex, so I can't comment on it directly.

I will also agree with a potential nutrient deficiency. I'd target having 10 to 20 ppm of nitrates when you dose more fertilizer. Don't let it get all the way down to zero. I've also had much better luck with plants and reducing algae by splitting my fertilizer dosing. Rather than 4 pumps of easy green once a week, I'll add 1 pump every other day, usually 2 pumps when I do a water change if nitrates are low. 

I also recommend only changing 1 variable at a time, such as lighting and fertilizers. If you change too much too quickly, you won't know what helped, and you may have done 1 thing that helps and 1 thing that hurts, which I've done and frustrates me quite a bit. 

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On 5/22/2021 at 9:55 AM, Mmiller2001 said:

What light do you have? You have room to dose more. You can use your Nitrates as a target. You can push it up to 25-30ppm. Sounds like you may have a bit of a potassium deficiency and adding a little more will not hurt. If the light is too bright, you will have algae everywhere. A few spots here and there is normal, it's when it goes "nuts" is when you would have too much light.

Easy Iron is EDTA, so you lock some out at a pH above 7.0, so adding a bit more will not hurt either. You could also try splitting your doses, so add half after a water change, then the other half a few days later. Split your Easy Green and Iron dosing, so 1 day Easy Green the next day Easy Iron.

This table can help you dose to 25-30ppm

East Green Crop.jpg

This chart is great.  So if I am understanding it correctly....if i have a 20 gallon tank brand new setup and nitrates are 0....to get to say 30 ppm of NO3...i would need 20 pumps of easy green

And if so then what should my target Iron be in above said setup in ppm? @Mmiller2001

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10 minutes ago, ARMYVET said:

This chart is great.  So if I am understanding it correctly....if i have a 20 gallon tank brand new setup and nitrates are 0....to get to say 30 ppm of NO3...i would need 20 pumps of easy green? 

And if so then what should my target Iron be in above said setup in ppm? @Mmiller2001

Correct.

Fe can be between .15 to 1ppm(per week). Depends on plants load, light and if dosing CO2.

Edited by Mmiller2001
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13 minutes ago, Mmiller2001 said:

Correct.

Fe can be between .15 to 1ppm(per week). Depends on plants load, light and if dosing CO2.

Well for complete clarity...lol  I am setting up a new outdoor pond.....150 gallons Rubbermaid Container.  My lighting will be...well the SUN...Im guessing that could be considered high lighting lol. I will not be dosing Co2.  I will have 2 large sponge filters one on either side of the pond.  Water will be from a well.  It tests out at 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrates.  ph of 7.4 and Gh/Kh of about 180 ppm.

So with this information ....I am calculating with each pump being 1ml....to get to 30 ppm nitrates I will need to use...1ml per gallon or 150 ml to start the pond with the plants to be at 30 ppm nitrates. WOuld you concur?

Would you dose easy iron at startup and if yes what would your thoughts to as far as initial dose and maint dosing? 

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7 minutes ago, ARMYVET said:

Well for complete clarity...lol  I am setting up a new outdoor pond.....150 gallons Rubbermaid Container.  My lighting will be...well the SUN...Im guessing that could be considered high lighting lol. I will not be dosing Co2.  I will have 2 large sponge filters one on either side of the pond.  Water will be from a well.  It tests out at 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrates.  ph of 7.4 and Gh/Kh of about 180 ppm.

So with this information ....I am calculating with each pump being 1ml....to get to 30 ppm nitrates I will need to use...1ml per gallon or 150 ml to start the pond with the plants to be at 30 ppm nitrates. WOuld you concur?

Would you dose easy iron at startup and if yes what would your thoughts to as far as initial dose and maint dosing? 

150ml yes. With a water volume that large, I would go dry fertilizers.

What substrate would you be using? You would dose very "lite" and ramp up as plants develop. 

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1 minute ago, Mmiller2001 said:

150ml yes. With a water volume that large, I would go dry fertilizers.

What substrate would you be using? You would dose very "lite" and ramp up as plants develop. 

I never even thought of dry ferts.  Easy green seemed well....EASY...lol

What ferts are you refering to and where would I get them.  Doing the math if I was using easy green 500 ml bottle would last me 3 1/2 weeks if I was dosing from 0 to 30 ppm every week...15 bottles a year....hadnt thought that part thru very well....LOL 

 

 

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1 minute ago, ARMYVET said:

Forgot to answer the substrate question...I was thinking of using Pool filter sand as my substrate.  With some crushed coral mixed in to maintain the hardness.  This will be a planted guppy pond when finished.  

I am really enjoying your thoughts and insights.  @Mmiller2001

With pool filter sand, which I use as well, you would want to dose a bit heavier in the beginning. 10:1:10 would be safe to start. 

I recommend EI (Estimative Index) dosing, it works so well and is easy to follow. There's tons of information on the web about EI dosing. For non CO2 tanks, just dose 1/2 to 1/4 of the recommended doses. For a pond, you probably could get near recommended dosing.

I like GLA dry fertilizers, cost wise. And for a harder water set up, make sure to get DTPA micro mix. 

I would get this for the DTPA+EDTA https://greenleafaquariums.com/products/pps-pro-aquarium-fertilizer-package-bags-edta-dtpa-version.html

This will last a long time, bought mine about 8 months ago and it will easily last another 8.

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8 hours ago, ChemBob said:

I have also not had issues burning floaters with bright light. I have red root floaters that seem to be doing just fine directly under my light. I'm not familiar with the Flex, so I can't comment on it directly.

I will also agree with a potential nutrient deficiency. I'd target having 10 to 20 ppm of nitrates when you dose more fertilizer. Don't let it get all the way down to zero. I've also had much better luck with plants and reducing algae by splitting my fertilizer dosing. Rather than 4 pumps of easy green once a week, I'll add 1 pump every other day, usually 2 pumps when I do a water change if nitrates are low. 

I also recommend only changing 1 variable at a time, such as lighting and fertilizers. If you change too much too quickly, you won't know what helped, and you may have done 1 thing that helps and 1 thing that hurts, which I've done and frustrates me quite a bit. 

This is a great point. I'm going to leave my light cycle as is and start increasing my fertilizer. I dosed three days ago and then this morning, the nitrates were < 20ppm so look like I need about every 3 days dosing. I also like your idea of the double dose after a water change.

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3 hours ago, Ogpulchra said:

I had the same problem until I started dosing Easy Green according to nitrate levels. 

That's what I've been doing! THings are going better but I'm burning through myeasy green. I need to find a more sustainable solution...

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41 minutes ago, Ponyoryx said:

That's what I've been doing! THings are going better but I'm burning through myeasy green. I need to find a more sustainable solution...

Dry fertilizers are the cheapest long term option. They are quite easy to use once you understand how to dose them.

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46 minutes ago, Ponyoryx said:

That's what I've been doing! THings are going better but I'm burning through myeasy green. I need to find a more sustainable solution...

Hmmm, I’m confused. If you use @Mmiller2001’s table posted above you should be adding four pumps (4ml) of easy green to get to 24ppm NO3 in a 5g tank that has zero NO3. Your bottle of Easy Green should last for a year. 

At two months I expect most  planted tanks are still settling in. Emersed growth from the farm is converting to submerged growth and other plants are just getting used to the new environment. I’ve even had super easy plants die off and them come back and thrive. So do spend time making sure you have the right light, substrate and you’re adding the right nutrients but also have patience. It will pay off! 

Edited by Patrick_G
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1 hour ago, Patrick_G said:

Hmmm, I’m confused. If you use @Mmiller2001’s table posted above you should be adding four pumps (4ml) of easy green to get to 24ppm NO3 in a 5g tank that has zero NO3. Your bottle of Easy Green should last for a year. 

At two months I expect most  planted tanks are still settling in. Emersed growth from the farm is converting to submerged growth and other plants are just getting used to the new environment. I’ve even had super easy plants die off and them come back and thrive. So do spend time making sure you have the right light, substrate and you’re adding the right nutrients but also have patience. It will pay off! 

I've had the bottle for 6months now and have another tank. I do really enjoy using it because it's so easy, so I'll probably just another bottle until I have more tanks and more time to dedicate to researching dry fertilizer 🙂

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