Why won't my PH stabilize?

[CharlieBrakes4Butterflies]

What is with this PH?  My Ammonia is 0, Nitrite is 0, and Nitrate is 20. The PH was 7 on 5/16 and this morning (5/20) it is between 7.2-7.6; I am calling it 7.4.  I am using EZ Green, Dustin's Iron (until it's gone}, and have also been using Seachem's Flourish, Potassium, and Phosphorus as recommended. Yesterday, I added Nitrogen and Trace. I have had issues with my PH for months. I removed the sand and the slate (thought there might be some other mineral in the slate) and hoping that would make a difference; it had gone up to 7.6 with those things in the tank. The PH seemed to be more stable after removing them. Could these nutrients be raising it again? Is it because I didn't do a water change last week (I was busy and hoped to make it two weeks). My tank has been up since September, somewhat heavily planted (lots of plants with medium growth}, dirt bottom and capped with Flourite. Rock and wood.  No fish. Yet. I want fish, but wanted to stabilize the PH and establish plants first. City water. I am so frustrated. Please help?

[tonyjuliano]

Holy smokes!  That’s a crazy nutrient-loaded soup you’ve got.

The dirt floor is full of nutrients, and on top of that you’re adding EZ-Green, Flourish & supplemental nitrogen?

Take it easy of the ferts!  Less can be more, and it’s definitely what has gotten you on a pH roller coaster.

Settle on a single source for water column fertilization, and dose in proper amount and frequency.

Edited May 20, 2021 by tonyjuliano

[CharlieBrakes4Butterflies]

Thank you, tonyjuliano! I went off on a fert tangent because of what looks like deficiencies (yellowing leaves, brown patches, pinholes, etc.) All my Anubias (who kills Anubias?) looked like crap and a few plants that I have planted in the last 6 months never even made it. Things started looking better after I bumped up the ferts which also made me feel like my tank had been lacking in nutrients. I did plant some root tabs early in the year and plan to put some more in this weekend for the new plants. I started the EZ Green within the last several weeks; I had been using Dustin's Growth Juice...not sure that was cutting it? I read from others that the Seachem Chart was great to follow. I just started the additional ferts working toward the chart, but adding them on the lower end of the dosage. Leaving some of that stuff out. I haven't been adding Excel cuz I've heard a lot of negative about that. Mainly adding the stuff to target the yellowing leaves, pinholes, brown patches, etc. 

[tonyjuliano]

15 hours ago, CharlieBrakes4Butterflies said:

Mainly adding the stuff to target the yellowing leaves, pinholes, brown patches, etc. 

The yellowing doesn’t necessarily mean a nitrogen deficiency.  It could be a magnesium, potassium or zinc deficiency.  The pinholes and brown spots are usually a sign of excess phosphate.

Look at your lighting too.

Like I said before, the safest thing to do is to pick a single multi fertilizer, and dose correctly.

Do the biggest water change you can and start with a fresh fertilization regimen.

[Daniel]

19 hours ago, CharlieBrakes4Butterflies said:

What is with this PH?  My Ammonia is 0, Nitrite is 0, and Nitrate is 20. The PH was 7 on 5/16 and this morning (5/20) it is between 7.2-7.6; I am calling it 7.4. 

Two words, photo synthesis. In a planted aquarium pH is low in the morning and high in the evening. The plants in your aquarium consume CO₂ and give off O₂ in the daytime because of photosynthesis, and conversely at night time plants consume O₂ and give off CO₂ again because of photosynthesis, which runs in reverse at night. And because CO₂ changes the pH of your aquarium, your pH swings up and down on a day/night cycle as seen in this data I collected recently from one of my aquariums:

Given that tall of your pH measurements are in the 7 something range, I think your pH is stable.

[CharlieBrakes4Butterflies]

Thank you, Daniel! This is a relief to hear. I don't think I have come across this concept during my numerous hours of research for this hobby or at least I didn't comprehend if I did. I need to know a bit more about the PH swings. Thanks again!

[CharlieBrakes4Butterflies]

Thank you, Tony! There is so much information out there...and sometimes very conflicting. I had an aquarium for years with few problems, but I had well water. Now that I have city water, I am having so many issues. I have a Fluval 3.0 Plant light and two powerheads, one moving the surface and a smaller one on the back wall bouncing off the front wall to move the rest of the tank a little. I really appreciate your help and wisdom. 

[Mmiller2001]

I wouldn't bat an eye at those numbers. My pH swings from 7.3 to 5.9 every single day. PH swing doesn't harm fish as long as GH and KH remain stable. 

Are you using Flourish Nitrogen too?

What trace mix are you using?

How many gallons is the tank?

[CharlieBrakes4Butterflies]

Thank you, Mmiller2001! I just started using Flourish Nitrogen and also Flourish Trace this week. How often should I check GH & KH? (every water change?)  Last I checked KH was somewhere between 7-8 and GH was 6. That was a while ago though. : / 

I check parameters often (at least weekly), but didn't realize that GH/KH were necessary to check as often. I'll check again this evening. 

I have a 26g. bow front.

[Mmiller2001]

3 hours ago, CharlieBrakes4Butterflies said:

Thank you, Mmiller2001! I just started using Flourish Nitrogen and also Flourish Trace this week. How often should I check GH & KH? (every water change?)  Last I checked KH was somewhere between 7-8 and GH was 6. That was a while ago though. : / 

I check parameters often (at least weekly), but didn't realize that GH/KH were necessary to check as often. I'll check again this evening. 

I have a 26g. bow front.

What substrate do you have?

Once a week is fine, but with GH and KH of 7/6, I wouldn't worry about it as long as you keep your water changes up. 

I'm assuming your source water is 7/6.

[Hobbit]

If you’re looking to create your own perfect mix of fertilizers, @Mmiller2001 is definitely your guy.

I personally tend to be like @tonyjuliano and stick with one fertilizer.

There are lots of different strategies for planted aquariums, so pick what suits you!

In terms of the pH specifically, I agree that it seems fine, especially since you have a reasonable amount of buffer (KH). Try testing at the same time each day and see if it seems more stable.

[CharlieBrakes4Butterflies]

52 minutes ago, Mmiller2001 said:

What substrate do you have?

Once a week is fine, but with GH and KH of 7/6, I wouldn't worry about it as long as you keep your water changes up. 

I'm assuming your source water is 7/6.

Omigoodness! I really should’ve been watching this closer, I think. I just tested my tap and tank for KH. The tap water took two drops to change to yellow, my tank water took three drops to change to yellow. It is the lightest of yellows though (I didn’t get bright). Can that be right? That’s not good, right? Is it different than the last reading of 6 due to city water treatment chemicals? Wow. I’ll test GH later; I have to go back to work. 

[Mmiller2001]

3 minutes ago, CharlieBrakes4Butterflies said:

Omigoodness! I really should’ve been watching this closer, I think. I just tested my tap and tank for KH. The tap water took two drops to change to yellow, my tank water took three drops to change to yellow. It is the lightest of yellows though (I didn’t get bright). Can that be right? That’s not good, right? Is it different than the last reading of 6 due to city water treatment chemicals? Wow. I’ll test GH later; I have to go back to work. 

That color looks correct for the change to yellow.

A 2KH is neither bad or good. It depends on the type of fish you want to keep.

I just saw you have a dirted substrate, are the plants new? Have they had enough time to produce roots? 

Flourish has iron in it, is it possible you are over dosing iron by using both Flourish and Dustin's iron?

[CharlieBrakes4Butterflies]

37 minutes ago, Mmiller2001 said:

What substrate do you have?

Once a week is fine, but with GH and KH of 7/6, I wouldn't worry about it as long as you keep your water changes up. 

I'm assuming your source water is 7/6.

Omigoodness. I just tested my tap water. The directions with KH say that the test is completed when the water turns from blue to yellow. A few sentences down it says it should be bright yellow. The third drop turned the water from blue to the lightest shade of yellow. (not bright) Does that mean my tap is a KH of 3?

 

7 minutes ago, Mmiller2001 said:

That color looks correct for the change to yellow.

A 2KH is neither bad or good. It depends on the type of fish you want to keep.

I just saw you have a dirted substrate, are the plants new? Have they had enough time to produce roots? 

Flourish has iron in it, is it possible you are over dosing iron by using both Flourish and Dustin's iron?

Regarding the Iron...Idk, I am slightly clueless. I thought I was doing whatever I could to help my plants alive cuz they were either dying or looking like they should  : ) What is best to cut out? 

I have numerous (6-7) Anubias attached to rock and wood (all were NOT doing well until I switched to the additional Seachem products and the EZ Green...I was just using Dustin's Growth Juice and Iron). I also had a couple Crypts, a couple swords, and some dwarf sag in there from months ago. Those have been in the tank for 4-5 months. Within the last month I have added another two swords, more dwarf sag, several more crypts, water sprite, pogostemon stellatus octopus, java fern windelov (on wood), and crinum calamistratum. Those are probably not established, right? I also have some red tiger lotus bulbs in glass containers.

[CharlieBrakes4Butterflies]

12 minutes ago, CharlieBrakes4Butterflies said:

Omigoodness. I just tested my tap water. The directions with KH say that the test is completed when the water turns from blue to yellow. A few sentences down it says it should be bright yellow. The third drop turned the water from blue to the lightest shade of yellow. (not bright) Does that mean my tap is a KH of 3?

 

Regarding the Iron...Idk, I am slightly clueless. I thought I was doing whatever I could to help my plants alive cuz they were either dying or looking like they should  : ) What is best to cut out? 

I have numerous (6-7) Anubias attached to rock and wood (all were NOT doing well until I switched to the additional Seachem products and the EZ Green...I was just using Dustin's Growth Juice and Iron). I also had a couple Crypts, a couple swords, and some dwarf sag in there from months ago. Those have been in the tank for 4-5 months. Within the last month I have added another two swords, more dwarf sag, several more crypts, water sprite, pogostemon stellatus octopus, java fern windelov (on wood), and crinum calamistratum. Those are probably not established, right? I also have some red tiger lotus bulbs in glass containers.

Yes, I have a dirt tank that is capped with flourite.

[Mmiller2001]

I would pick one regiment and stick to it. When you are using multiple sources (Easy Green, Seachem and Dustin's) it's going to very difficult to understand what's going on.

If you choose Seachem, make sure to use all 3, NPK and trace.

I'm not familiar with Dustin's products so can't help there.

If you go Easy Green, you could probably use Flourish and Trace to cover any deficiencies.

Edited May 21, 2021 by Mmiller2001

[tonyjuliano]

9 minutes ago, Mmiller2001 said:

If you go Easy Green, you could probably use Flourish and Trace to cover any deficiencies.

If he takes the option prescribed above, should he dose in the amounts listed for each product?  Or would there be an adjustment necessary because of the combination?

Edited May 21, 2021 by tonyjuliano

[Mmiller2001]

17 minutes ago, tonyjuliano said:

If he takes the option prescribed above, should he dose in the amounts listed for each product?  Or would there be an adjustment necessary because of the combination?

With a dirted tank, I would run lean on column dosing.

I would 3 pump Easy Green for his 24 gallons and dose half to quarter of the directions on Flourish. I would hold off on trace until I actually see a problem.

Then just watch the new growth.

It's really tough using multiple products that have their own "winning blend".

For the expenses, I would use up all my Seachem products first, then roll into Easy Green.

I would dose a quarter to half the recommended dosage on the flourish products. Reason for the lower dosing, dirt substrate. 

[CharlieBrakes4Butterflies]

On 5/21/2021 at 4:26 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

I would pick one regiment and stick to it. When you are using multiple sources (Easy Green, Seachem and Dustin's) it's going to very difficult to understand what's going on.

If you choose Seachem, make sure to use all 3, NPK and trace.

I'm not familiar with Dustin's products so can't help there.

If you go Easy Green, you could probably use Flourish and Trace to cover any deficiencies.

Thank you. I had just a bit of Dustin's growth juice left. I have eliminated it. I don't feel it was doing what it needed to anyway.

[CharlieBrakes4Butterflies]

Thank you, Mmiller2001 and tonyjuliano! I greatly appreciate your advice. I've been off the grid for a couple days having gotten some devastating news from a friend. 

I am dumping Dustin's products because I have been using them for months and though they seem to work for many, I don't think they are working for me. I have been using smaller doses of the flourish products, but will cut those even more.

How do you feel about AC Iron? You mentioned Iron and Flourish earlier...should I just use only one or the other?

Thanks again!

~ Lori

PS : )  Charlie, who Brakes4Butterflies, is my best friend (black Lab Weimaraner). Pic was taken 5 years ago when he was a crazy puppy. I had to keep him on a cable run when I wasn't working with him so he wouldn't chase the butterflies three mountains over. 

Have a great day!

 

 

[Mmiller2001]

For simplicity, I would use Easy Iron. If you feel that your are deficient in micros, then you could use Flourish to cover those.