Coldwater biological filtration

[eatyourpeas]

I am trying to set up a 5 gallon canister filter for a 36 gallon coldwater (55F) marine tank, and was wondering if anyone has had experience with how long it takes for BB to get established in such an environment. Part of my challenge is the filter media arrangement, so any input is appreciated.

I already have a small coldwater tank that seems to be using BB as well as macro algae. I have carbon and a sponge in the filter, but it is so small that I do not want to use that as reference. Also, I do not intend to use carbon in the 5 gallon filter.

[Solidus1833]

I think filter media arrangement is always the same, please someone correct me if I'm wrong. 

In your flow order (mechanical-sponge), then (biological-Bio balls, biohome, ect), and lastly (chemical filtration). The biggie is not having your chemical filtration (if you use any) before the rest as it will starve your beneficial bacteria. That said, I've zero experience with marine tanks. 

As for 'how long' it takes for Beneficial bacteria to establish. Say you dose a tank with Seachem Stability, you are looking around 3 days for 'that' dose to establish itself to the current bio-load. I dont know if temperature slows this process or not. 

[eatyourpeas]

24 minutes ago, Solidus1833 said:

I dont know if temperature slows this process or not. 

I have been told that is the case. I have not had any issues with the freshwater tanks, but I am very new to cold and saltwater.

[Solidus1833]

1 hour ago, eatyourpeas said:

I have been told that is the case. I have not had any issues with the freshwater tanks, but I am very new to cold and saltwater.

So the way I understand it, there is a 'balance' with Beneficial bacteria. You can dose for more Beneficial bacteria but the excess will die off and stay within balance of the bio-load the tank offers. If its balanced, and you add a fish, the beneficial bacteria will catch up gradually. if you add 30 fish at once, you may want to dose beneficial bacteria a day or so prior to adding the fish, or while you add the fish. This enables the BB to buffer and not have to catch up to the new bio-load. Any excess will still die off and obtain equilibrium just like before. 

In my opinion, if you were setting up a 'new' cannister, I would take half of your established biological media, and incorporate this into your new cannister, and replace the same amount into the established filter. Dose Stability in both systems. Your established filtration will recover quickly, and your new canister should have a nice head start to a strong colony provided there is 'some' bio-load for BB to eat. 

 

If you don't mind me asking, what species are you planning on that requires such low 'controlled' temperatures? Seems intriguing. 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Solidus1833
words

[eatyourpeas]

19 minutes ago, Solidus1833 said:

So the way I understand it, there is a 'balance' with Beneficial bacteria. You can dose for more Beneficial bacteria but the excess will die off and stay within balance of the bio-load the tank offers. If its balanced, and you add a fish, the beneficial bacteria will catch up gradually. if you add 30 fish at once, you may want to dose beneficial bacteria a day or so prior to adding the fish, or while you add the fish. This enables the BB to buffer and not have to catch up to the new bio-load. Any excess will still die off and obtain equilibrium just like before. 

In my opinion, if you were setting up a 'new' cannister, I would take half of your established biological media, and incorporate this into your new cannister, and replace the same amount into the established filter. Dose Stability in both systems. Your established filtration will recover quickly, and your new canister should have a nice head start to a strong colony provided there is 'some' bio-load for BB to eat. 

 

If you don't mind me asking, what species are you planning on that requires such low 'controlled' temperatures? Seems intriguing. 

I see. I do understand that from freshwater, just wasn't sure about the effect of temperature on the BB establishing in a new system. I used Brightwell Aquatics MicroBacter in the small tank and it appears to have succeeded, so I am looking at a repeat for the big filter. I will add more media to the small tank to have it ready to migrate by the time I finish building the tank.

I am looking at a Grunt sculpin (Rhamphocottus richardsonii) in my Puget Sound biotope. They like their water at 55F 🙂

[Solidus1833]

Now I've seen some sculpin's, and THAT is truly unique. Very cool looking fish. 

[tonyjuliano]

All bacteria (“beneficial” or not) will multiply more rapidly at a warmer temperature, as opposed to cooler - as long as there is an adequate food source.

There are limits, of course, high heat as well as low cold will “kill them off”.  This is what happens when you cook something thoroughly, or freeze it.

The optimal temperature for nitrosomas and nitrobacter replication is somewhere between 78-80 degrees Fahrenheit. An aquarium will “cycle” at 65 degrees, it will just take longer to do so.

Even if I’m setting up a “cold water” tank, I put a heater in for the cycle period (fishless).

Edited May 14, 2021 by tonyjuliano

[eatyourpeas]

13 minutes ago, tonyjuliano said:

All bacteria (“beneficial” or not) will multiply more rapidly at a warmer temperature, as opposed to cooler - as long as there is an adequate food source.

There are limits, of course, high heat as wall as low cold will “kill them off”.  This is what happens when you cook something thoroughly, or freeze it.

The optimal temperature for nitrosomas and nitrobacter replication is somewhere between 78-80 degrees Fahrenheit. An aquarium will “cycle” at 65 degrees, it will just take longer to do so.

Even if I’m setting up a “cold water” tank, I put a heater in for the cycle period (fishless).

Great! I will try that in order to establish the bacteria and then get the tank slowly back down to 55F 🙂

[DShelton]

Can you share more about your marine tank? What fish are you planning in keeping? Are you doing fish only with live rock (FOWLR) or is this just a pure marine tank with the canister? Other than time, there is no difference in cycling a cold water aquarium and a tropical aquarium. The bacteria can live at those temps, it just takes them longer to populate.

I have done something like this (25 years ago), but I used an undergravel filter with crushed coral and an Eheim (king of the canisters IMO) canister.  I 'seeded' the tank (30gallon long) with ~10# of live rock from my reef tank and then kept it as fish only. I did not have a chiller, but I did have access to a room that was kept at a constant 15 ℃ ± .5°. So with all of the electricals in the tank, the water never got above 17 ℃

[eatyourpeas]

2 hours ago, DShelton said:

Can you share more about your marine tank? What fish are you planning in keeping? Are you doing fish only with live rock (FOWLR) or is this just a pure marine tank with the canister? Other than time, there is no difference in cycling a cold water aquarium and a tropical aquarium. The bacteria can live at those temps, it just takes them longer to populate.

I have done something like this (25 years ago), but I used an undergravel filter with crushed coral and an Eheim (king of the canisters IMO) canister.  I 'seeded' the tank (30gallon long) with ~10# of live rock from my reef tank and then kept it as fish only. I did not have a chiller, but I did have access to a room that was kept at a constant 15 ℃ ± .5°. So with all of the electricals in the tank, the water never got above 17 ℃

This will be a Puget Sound biotope housing a Grunt sculpin. There will be rocks, crustaceans, macro algae, anemones, maybe other inverts and fish. The ideal temperature should stay at about 13C and I will be making both the filter and the acrylic tank.

Your seeding approach is very similar to how I will be starting since I am sourcing the rocks and livestock directly from the ocean. I may help the BB establishing process a little bit by slightly raising the temperature before adding the fish.

Interesting to see the temperature increase when all the electrical components are added. By my calculations, I should be adding no more than 1C once lights, powerheads, etc. enter the tank equation and will compensate by lowering the temperature of the cooling tank slightly. I will not be using a chiller either. Instead the aforementioned cooling tank will live in a chilled room. The canister filter will be kept in a different room inside its own cooler, separated from the pump to prevent heat affecting the water temperature.

What did you keep in your tank? I would love to hear more about it 🙂

 

[gardenman]

One good thing is ammonia loses toxicity as the water temp decreases. A level of ammonia that could kill your fish at 80 degrees may have no impact on them at 55 degrees. Because bacteria are more active at higher temps, you'll need a larger bacteria colony to achieve the same result at a lower temp. I like to think of bacteria as eating bites per minute of ammonia (and nitrites). Your total waste output is their pie. If the bacteria are eating twenty bites per minute, the pie (fish waste) will be gone soon. If they're eating one bite every twenty minutes and new pies (fish waste) are added every six hours, you may have a lot of pies piling up before long. How do you get the pies eaten faster if your pie eaters are only eating one bite every twenty minutes? Add more pie eaters. (In this case more beneficial bacteria.) You'll want lots and lots of places for beneficial bacteria to live in when you have a cold water tank. Undergravel filtration is something you may want to consider with a fairly deep sand bed atop it. Deep sand beds can develop anoxic areas, but an undergravel filter tends to minimize that risk while giving you lots of places for good bacteria to colonize. A three to six inch deep sand bed in a cold water tank with an undergravel filter could be a very good solution to housing enough bacteria.

[eatyourpeas]

3 hours ago, gardenman said:

Because bacteria are more active at higher temps, you'll need a larger bacteria colony to achieve the same result at a lower temp.

Excellent, thanks! This bit of information helps a lot.

 

3 hours ago, gardenman said:

A three to six inch deep sand bed in a cold water tank with an undergravel filter could be a very good solution to housing enough bacteria.

Unfortunately not an option for the size of tank I have. My total height is 13” 🙂

[eatyourpeas]

Given all the helpful responses, I think I am a little more comfortable with pursuing the patience game on establishing the BB in the tank.

I am extremely unqualified to provide valuable opinions in other great filtration posts, but one lesson I have learned is that my limited variables will produce different results from other study environments. I am learning to take the bits that apply and modify as necessary.

Moving forward, I will probably continue to rely on macro algae, aggressive mechanical filtration, water changes, and let the BB take its time making itself at home, even if it is months down the road. I will get a lot more bottled bacteria than originally planned 😉

[Solidus1833]

10 minutes ago, eatyourpeas said:

Given all the helpful responses, I think I am a little more comfortable with pursuing the patience game on establishing the BB in the tank.

I am extremely unqualified to provide valuable opinions in other great filtration posts, but one lesson I have learned is that my limited variables will produce different results from other study environments. I am learning to take the bits that apply and modify as necessary.

Moving forward, I will probably continue to rely on macro algae, aggressive mechanical filtration, water changes, and let the BB take its time making itself at home, even if it is months down the road. I will get a lot more bottled bacteria than originally planned 😉

Would something like Live rock create a really good platform for cycling a tank or would a marine tank need a cycle prior to live rock? 

[eatyourpeas]

5 minutes ago, Solidus1833 said:

Would something like Live rock create a really good platform for cycling a tank or would a marine tank need a cycle prior to live rock? 

I believe the rock will almost give me a free cycle if I manage not to crash it. I think if I populate with enough macro algae I can get it going while keeping a close watch. I will need to be patient when it comes to the biomedia in the filter to get going. 🙂