Need some advice starting this hobby and just a newb for now.

[DLMyst]

After seeing my dad's 30gal tank I'm getting that itch to start my own.  I'm planning on getting a 50 gal tank and want to add a lot of crypts, moss and other plants to make it look like a cool forest.  Not enough that you can't see the fish but gives a cool illusion that they can be lurking in the shadows.  Now for the fish I want to add some Amano and cherry shrimp.  Either 3 of each or 6 of one type depending on the suggestion from the community here.  I want to have 3 Hill Stream Loaches since I love how they look and 3 or 4 Kuhli Loaches since again they look pretty neat.  From there on I'm at a loss on what other fish I should get since that's like 12 in 50 gal and most of the ones I picked stay at the bottom.  Also, I believe they don't even grow more than a couple of inches.  What school of fish will cohabitate with the ones I would like and fill out the tank and how many I should get?  Thanks in advance.  

[Solidus1833]

When just starting out in the hobby, you may want to choose species you 'dont' have to change the water-table for.  The one of the worst things a new hobbyist could do is fight their water source for specific species. I'd first look at what fish your father has and maybe go from there. Amano and cherry shrimp with hill streams is a common mixture. With kuhli's you may want more than 3 or 4, as they are very skittish and will hide most of the time especially if its a small group. If you are set on having shrimp, then other loaches (clown, zebra, yoyo, dojo) you will want to avoid as they absolutely love to eat shrimp and snails. If you are looking for some mid-water fish then I would suggest maybe 3-5 rainbow's, of really any species. 

Your question on 'how' many all depends on how much you want to do water changes and your overall filtration capacity. For example, put a fluval FX4 with a spray-bar on a 50g, and you may not have to do water changes for weeks depending on how heavy you feed. Put a HOB filter and maybe a sponge filter and you could possibly still get away with water changes every 2 weeks. I'm not an expert on shrimp nor have I ever kept any, but I think from my research they are happiest when the water changes aren't as frequent. 

I tend to do water 30% changes whenever my 72g goes from 20-30ppm Nitrates to around 80ppm. Which for me is about 7-10 days depending on how I feed. Fx4 cannister with spray bar,

Stock list: 

72G Fish List:

Plecostamous;

L191: Dull-eyed Royal Pleco 75F-84F pH: 6.5-7.5

L075,L124,L301,LDA002:Sarbaji 'Para' Pleco 78F-86F *75-78 pH:6.6-7.6

L270: False Zebra Pleco

L200: Green Phantom Pleco

Corydora;

Albino: x4 72F-79F pH:5.8-7.0

Rainbowfish;

Bosmanai: X4 72F-77F pH:7.0-8.0 *6.5-8.0

Sharks;

Rainbow:72F-79F pH:6.5-7.5

Loaches;

Dojo:Grey/Peppered x3  50F-82F pH:6.5-8.0
Dojo:Albino/Gold x2

Clown:x6 72F-86F pH:6.0-7.5

Other;

Algae Eater;

Siamese: x2

Total: 26

 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Solidus1833

[Fish Folk]

37 minutes ago, Solidus1833 said:

When just starting out in the hobby, you may want to choose species you 'dont' have to change the water-table for.  The one of the worst things a new hobbyist could do is fight their water source for specific species. I'd first look at what fish your father has and maybe go from there. Amano and cherry shrimp with hill streams is a common mixture. With kuhli's you may want more than 3 or 4, as they are very skittish and will hide most of the time especially if its a small group. If you are set on having shrimp, then other loaches (clown, zebra, yoyo, dojo) you will want to avoid as they absolutely love to eat shrimp and snails. If you are looking for some mid-water fish then I would suggest maybe 3-5 rainbow's, of really any species. 

Your question on 'how' many all depends on how much you want to do water changes and your overall filtration capacity. For example, put a fluval FX4 with a spray-bar on a 50g, and you may not have to do water changes for weeks depending on how heavy you feed. Put a HOB filter and maybe a sponge filter and you could possibly still get away with water changes every 2 weeks. I'm not an expert on shrimp nor have I ever kept any, but I think from my research they are happiest when the water changes aren't as frequent. 

I tend to do water 30% changes whenever my 72g goes from 20-30ppm Nitrates to around 80ppm. Which for me is about 7-10 days depending on how I feed. Fx4 cannister with spray bar,

Stock list: 

72G Fish List:

Plecostamous;

L191: Dull-eyed Royal Pleco 75F-84F pH: 6.5-7.5

L075,L124,L301,LDA002:Sarbaji 'Para' Pleco 78F-86F *75-78 pH:6.6-7.6

L270: False Zebra Pleco

L200: Green Phantom Pleco

Corydora;

Albino: x4 72F-79F pH:5.8-7.0

Rainbowfish;

Bosmanai: X4 72F-77F pH:7.0-8.0 *6.5-8.0

Sharks;

Rainbow:72F-79F pH:6.5-7.5

Loaches;

Dojo:Grey/Peppered x3  50F-82F pH:6.5-8.0
Dojo:Albino/Gold x2

Clown:x6 72F-86F pH:6.0-7.5

Other;

Algae Eater;

Siamese: x2

Total: 26

 

This is a good answer! ^^^

[DLMyst]

Thanks for the advice and I'll keep that in mind.  My PH normally is anywhere from 7.5-8.0 that I've seen in my dad's tank.  We do have a water softener system since I live in FL and hate how hard water feels.  Sadly my dad started the hobby a month ago and the 90% of his first batch of fish died overnight in his 30 gal tank.  My guess was that the tank wasn't fully cycled after a week before getting the fish.  Currently right now he has 3 Glo fish , 1 cherry shrimp, 1 orange fish that I  have no clue what it is and lastly a catfish that has poke  dots like zebra markings.  I wasn't there when he got the fish and I apologize for not knowing their names.  I included a picture of his orange fish.  When the catfish gets out of hiding I'll take a picture of him too.  Given I want different fish than my dad since his taste differs compared to mine;)

[Trish]

2 hours ago, Solidus1833 said:

When just starting out in the hobby, you may want to choose species you 'dont' have to change the water-table for.  The one of the worst things a new hobbyist could do is fight their water source for specific species. I'd first look at what fish your father has and maybe go from there. Amano and cherry shrimp with hill streams is a common mixture. With kuhli's you may want more than 3 or 4, as they are very skittish and will hide most of the time especially if its a small group. If you are set on having shrimp, then other loaches (clown, zebra, yoyo, dojo) you will want to avoid as they absolutely love to eat shrimp and snails. If you are looking for some mid-water fish then I would suggest maybe 3-5 rainbow's, of really any species. 

Your question on 'how' many all depends on how much you want to do water changes and your overall filtration capacity. For example, put a fluval FX4 with a spray-bar on a 50g, and you may not have to do water changes for weeks depending on how heavy you feed. Put a HOB filter and maybe a sponge filter and you could possibly still get away with water changes every 2 weeks. I'm not an expert on shrimp nor have I ever kept any, but I think from my research they are happiest when the water changes aren't as frequent. 

I tend to do water 30% changes whenever my 72g goes from 20-30ppm Nitrates to around 80ppm. Which for me is about 7-10 days depending on how I feed. Fx4 cannister with spray bar,

Stock list: 

72G Fish List:

Plecostamous;

L191: Dull-eyed Royal Pleco 75F-84F pH: 6.5-7.5

L075,L124,L301,LDA002:Sarbaji 'Para' Pleco 78F-86F *75-78 pH:6.6-7.6

L270: False Zebra Pleco

L200: Green Phantom Pleco

Corydora;

Albino: x4 72F-79F pH:5.8-7.0

Rainbowfish;

Bosmanai: X4 72F-77F pH:7.0-8.0 *6.5-8.0

Sharks;

Rainbow:72F-79F pH:6.5-7.5

Loaches;

Dojo:Grey/Peppered x3  50F-82F pH:6.5-8.0
Dojo:Albino/Gold x2

Clown:x6 72F-86F pH:6.0-7.5

Other;

Algae Eater;

Siamese: x2

Total: 26

 

@Solidus1833curious, what will you do when your Clowns outgrow your tank.. are you going to upgrade, this is how MTS got me! 

[Solidus1833]

11 minutes ago, DLMyst said:

Thanks for the advice and I'll keep that in mind.  My PH normally is anywhere from 7.5-8.0 that I've seen in my dad's tank.  We do have a water softener system since I live in FL and hate how hard water feels.  Sadly my dad started the hobby a month ago and the 90% of his first batch of fish died overnight in his 30 gal tank.  My guess was that the tank wasn't fully cycled after a week before getting the fish.  Currently right now he has 3 Glo fish , 1 cherry shrimp, 1 orange fish that I  have no clue what it is and lastly a catfish that has poke  dots like zebra markings.  I wasn't there when he got the fish and I apologize for not knowing their names.  I included a picture of his orange fish.  When the catfish gets out of hiding I'll take a picture of him too.  Given I want different fish than my dad since his taste differs compared to mine;)

I'm not sure what fish that is in the picture, maybe a molly? You may be correct about your fathers first batch, however, it is possible to cycle a tank safely using the 'fish-in' method. Using a water conditioner like Seachem Prime, to detoxify nitrites while the cycle locks in can be done, but usually not recommended for beginners. If I were you, Id give your father's tank another month to really get seasoned and see how the animals have progressed. Any more losses, or stress should be noted for further stocking. I would begin with taking some tap water to a LFS to have them give you a water test. You should also get an API master test kit and become fully versed with testing water. Here you can find out your water GH and KH, which is very important for keeping some fish and most invertebrates like shrimp. Again I'm not very well versed with shrimp, but I think they require a specific number of dissolved solids in the water column. Whether that's 'zero' or a higher number I've got no clue. Some species thrive in hard water and others in soft. Some can do well in either. 

This is where your personal research and not from just one source should be paramount to your success. One good method is to go speak to a local fish store and talk to them about their water. If you are on the same water grid as them, it could be a good start for some reasonable data regarding your own experiences. As you said, your home has a water softener, so that will be a variable, how much I cant determine. 

[Solidus1833]

Just now, Trish said:

@Solidus1833curious, what will you do when your Clowns outgrow your tank.. are you going to upgrade, this is how MTS got me! 

HAHA, yeah it will be years before they are 'too big'. By then I usually sell them back and get some more young ones. Adult Clowns sell for a good amount of cash compared to when you buy them young. Currently I have 6 in this 72g. I want to upgrade to a 125g, but I sort of want to wait for a move that should be within the next 1-2 years. But I'm also eyeing a 300G for that move, so its all kind of up in the air. I love clown loaches, they deserve that name wholeheartedly. From sleeping on their sides, to playing with their food 'snails'. They are so much fun to watch. 

[Trish]

10 minutes ago, Solidus1833 said:

HAHA, yeah it will be years before they are 'too big'. By then I usually sell them back and get some more young ones. Adult Clowns sell for a good amount of cash compared to when you buy them young. Currently I have 6 in this 72g. I want to upgrade to a 125g, but I sort of want to wait for a move that should be within the next 1-2 years. But I'm also eyeing a 300G for that move, so its all kind of up in the air. I love clown loaches, they deserve that name wholeheartedly. From sleeping on their sides, to playing with their food 'snails'. They are so much fun to watch. 

They are lovely and I bet you get a lot of enjoyment out of them.. my clown is now  13 yrs old and heading to 7 inches, he was a rescue and lives with other loaches.  Doesn't seem to be missing his own kind, plays with everybody else.  Should I move I'd like to house everything I have left in a 100g downsizing to that one and only tank!  

Edited May 9, 2021 by Trish

[Solidus1833]

1 hour ago, Trish said:

They are lovely and I bet you get a lot of enjoyment out of them.. my clown is now  13 yrs old and heading to 7 inches, he was a rescue and lives with other loaches.  Doesn't seem to be missing his own kind, plays with everybody else.  Should I move I'd like to house everything I have left in a 100g downsizing to that one and only tank!  

Wow 13yrs!  Thats awesome!