Pseudo-saltwater journal

[eatyourpeas]

Those fish are simply stunning! 😍

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Well, I finally got around to adding some smaller rocks to create smaller crevices for the fry and smaller fish to hide safely.  Can you spot the new rocks?

I think those new ones look like they'll eventually fit right in once they are covered in diatoms.  I can't believe how blinding white those rocks are when new.  I'd completely forgotten that.  Plus, it's put into focus how much I enjoy how they have aged.  They really have grown into looking like live rock in SW tanks in a lot of ways.  It's just such a nice effect.  I've been really happy that they haven't been covered in green algae, which would make them look very FW to me.   

The other new one I had to put in fits in a little less well, but you can only see it from the one side.  I'm hoping it looks a little less contrived once it ages.

That one I needed to put in to disrupt the dominance hierarchy in the Julis.  It seems to have worked, too.  So for the time being, that's been worth the weird bump in that pile.

[eatyourpeas]

It is so nice to know rocks will age to your expectations. Looking very nice, and the terrain is looking more interesting. 😍

[OnlyGenusCaps]

This will be the least update, update ever.  But here we go.

With the days getting longer here on the 45th parallel, I walked into the room with this tank before the lights came on and realized a couple things about it.  The first is that the water is really sparkling clear.  That just made me happy.  But the other is just how badly my phone takes photos of the tank when the lights are on.  Here is what the tank look like from above without the lights on (it's a bit blurry because of the surface agitation; the color is the point):

Nothing like what I have been able to show.  Actually, a bit bland in my mind.  I do like what my lights do for the appearance of the tank.  But it definitely makes it a challenge to take photos.  So I finally bit the bullet and bought the photo app for aquariums.  And I have to say: Wow!  Here is the very first photo I took with the app, just using automatic settings:

That, ladies and gentlemen, is what my tank looks like in person.  I haven't learned how to use all the features, but with a default that good, I may not have to.  Subsequent updates about this tank will look a lot more like this.  Like how it looks in person.

[Guppysnail]

Wow that is awesome!  Is the app available for iPhones from the app store?  

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 3/9/2022 at 8:52 PM, Guppysnail said:

Wow that is awesome!  Is the app available for iPhones from the app store?

Right?!  Right!  Such a difference! 

And yes, you can grab it on the App Store for like $4.  It's called "Aquarium Camera: LED Light Color Correction" by John Ostler.  Reef tank hobby recommended.  Those reefers.  They love their tech! 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Today I got some snail mail.  And I mean that literally!  🐌 I received an order of two snail species. 

The first will be going in this tank.  I took out my rabbit snails when I had to medicate, or more accurately, because the medication was killing them.  And now I have new plans for them.  So, I needed something else in there.  And because I don't have plants in that tank, I can add snails that...  Well, would eat plants.  I decided on "tiger spike" snails (Stenomelania acutospira).  They have another common name, but it seems low-key...  Not nice.  So I've decided not to use that one.  Thank goodness for Latin binomials!!!  🥳

And, and, though not going in this tank, I also got a snail I have wanted to a long time.  I got 10 porcelain limpet nerite snails (Septaria porcellana)!  These things are so, so cool!  Sadly, 3 arrived dead, but that leaves me with 7 right now.  They are happily munching on algae in that disgusting tank behind them in the photo.

This does mean I want to try to breed them.  Has anyone here successfully ever bred nertite snails?  Maybe @Zenzo?  He's got nerites and brackish tanks.  I'll set up a brackish tank to breed these snails!  Yes, they are that cool!

Also, there are new Julie babies!  Always new Julie babies.  I need to BAP these!

Edited April 7, 2022 by OnlyGenusCaps
Forgot the Julie babies!

[Torrey]

On 4/6/2022 at 7:36 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

Today I got some snail mail.  And I mean that literally!  🐌 I received an order of two snail species. 

The first will be going in this tank.  I took out my rabbit snails when I had to medicate, or more accurately, because the medication was killing them.  And now I have new plans for them.  So, I needed something else in there.  And because I don't have plants in that tank, I can add snails that...  Well, would eat plants.  I decided on "tiger spike" snails (Stenomelania acutospira).  They have another common name, but it seems low-key...  Not nice.  So I've decided not to use that one.  Thank goodness for Latin binomials!!!  🥳

And, and, though not going in this tank, I also got a snail I have wanted to a long time.  I got 10 porcelain limpet nerite snails (Septaria porcellana)!  These things are so, so cool!  Sadly, 3 arrived dead, but that leaves me with 7 right now.  They are happily munching on algae in that disgusting tank behind them in the photo.

This does mean I want to try to breed them.  Has anyone here successfully ever bred nertite snails?  Maybe @Zenzo?  He's got nerites and brackish tanks.  I'll set up a brackish tank to breed these snails!  Yes, they are that cool!

Also, there are new Julie babies!  Always new Julie babies.  I need to BAP these!

I have not successfully bred nerites, I have done a **ton** of research on breeding them however.

My recommendation is look for the peer-reviewed research, as different species of nerites (you will need the latin binomial) have different salinity requirements... they all have a zooey stage of free-swimming, and once the ones that require salinity evolve into actual snails (~ 4+ months) they are ready to start transitioning  back to freshwater. There are at least 2 species I had found that don't actually require salinity for breeding or hatching.... but they are not available in the aquarium hobby.

Have fun!!!!

[Zenzo]

@OnlyGenusCaps No luck in my brackish tanks that has resulted in successful hatches (that I can see). 

[Henry the fish keeper]

Good luck breeding your nertite snails! 😁

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 4/6/2022 at 10:29 PM, Torrey said:

My recommendation is look for the peer-reviewed research, as different species of nerites (you will need the latin binomial) have different salinity requirements... they all have a zooey stage of free-swimming

It's funny you say that.  Later that night I did just that, and learned that nerites in general have a veliger stage.  That makes them pretty much out right away for breeding.  It also means those annoying eggs are never going to be useful in a home aquarium.  Plus, I suspect it is even worse with the species I have (Septaria porcellana) which is found across the Pacific from Japan to Costa Rica, with no known subspecies or geographic variants.  Suggests to me their planktonic stage is not short.  To say the least.  And on top of that, apparently mine lay large eggs for nerites too.  🙄  This will serve as a reminder to me to do my research before buying an animal. 

If I want a limpet type snail I should probably track down the much less impressive Ancylus fluviatilis.  Not as big or attractive, but at least it would sustain in my tanks. 

On 4/6/2022 at 10:29 PM, Torrey said:

There are at least 2 species I had found that don't actually require salinity for breeding or hatching....

Don't leave me in suspense, which two?! 

On 4/7/2022 at 12:47 PM, Zenzo said:

No luck in my brackish tanks that has resulted in successful hatches (that I can see).

I would have given you a "thanks" like, but as an admin you don't seem to have that feature.  So, I was forced to quote you to say - Thanks for letting me know!  Hopefully that's not too annoying.  Sorry.

[Biotope Biologist]

Psh that’s easy for a master breeder. Just live near a warm tropical estuary and dump them in. I shouldn’t give people ideas like that…

 

I really enjoy this tank and how it’s coming together what a clever idea! The limpets really tie this “psueodosaltwater” theme up nicely

[Zenzo]

On 4/8/2022 at 5:02 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

I would have given you a "thanks" like, but as an admin you don't seem to have that feature.  So, I was forced to quote you to say - Thanks for letting me know!  Hopefully that's not too annoying.  Sorry.

Not annoying at all. In fact, this forum is one of the very few places on the internet where I rarely get annoyed. LOL!😄

[Torrey]

On 4/8/2022 at 10:46 AM, Zenzo said:

Not annoying at all. In fact, this forum is one of the very few places on the internet where I rarely get annoyed. LOL!😄

That is a wonderful confirmation that Cory and the entire team have done a good job setting up the forum.

Y'all done good!🌿❤️🌿

[Torrey]

On 4/8/2022 at 6:02 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

Don't leave me in suspense, which two?! 

I found them before I had my stroke, and spent a year trying to track down where I could buy them... had no luck... then the stroke, and now I don't remember🤣

I'm sure my next rabbit hole I could find them again, lol. Check with NCSU Vet school, or UNC _Wilmington Marine Biology department for more info.

Some of the nerites were actually fairly feasible, and one of the best laid plans involved letting a pair get it on in a brackish tank and lay eggs in the tank, then remove the pair and continue to elevate the salinity levels until equal to ocean, and increase flow. Depending on species, 3 to 6 months after eggs disappear, start lowering the salinity slowly. I can remember just enough to say "yes, it can be done" but not which species were easier, I am so sorry for not being more helpful.

I want to say it was species of nerite out of Africa that live entire lifecycle in brackish (helpful for Zenzo) and didn't need a lot of finagling, just a lot of hiding spots. Coastal nerites have 2 distinct parts of the life cycle and the zooey stage can be 3 months to 3 years depending on species, and there were a couple that aren't common in the aquarium trade that don't appear to require a marine environment for any part of the cycle... 

Just under half of the nerites in the aquarium trade were under review due to the new availability for genomic classification, so no telling where they finally ended up getting reorganized into, binomially.

Human hubris has created a lot of jumbled, pride driven, mis-identification.

[Odd Duck]

On 4/8/2022 at 7:02 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

And on top of that, apparently mine lay large eggs for nerites too. 

I have several marble limpets and have not noticed them laying any eggs.  I don’t have them in their own tank anywhere, so the other snails may eliminate the eggs before I see them.  They also appear to be as resistant to pea puffers as is possible.  They are very much not resistant to falling on their backs no matter what tank or other inhabitants may be in there.  Horned nerites also appear to be quite resistant to pea puffers, FYI.  They only lay tiny eggs.

[Odd Duck]

I’ve read about a freshwater nerite from Israel but it almost can’t be found outside the country since apparently it’s illegal to export.  Supposedly there are some that were exported years ago, but no one knows if there are still any around.

[eatyourpeas]

On 4/8/2022 at 8:10 AM, Biotope Biologist said:

Psh that’s easy for a master breeder. Just live near a warm tropical estuary and dump them in. I shouldn’t give people ideas like that…

 

I really enjoy this tank and how it’s coming together what a clever idea! The limpets really tie this “psueodosaltwater” theme up nicely

Indeed! Bad influence! 🤪

I agree that the limpets give it a SW feel. My limpets are always cleaning the glass from diatoms and are so much fun to watch. Busy little things!

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 4/8/2022 at 10:10 AM, Biotope Biologist said:

The limpets really tie this “psueodosaltwater” theme up nicely

Sorry, I was not clear enough.  I have the "limpets" in a tank in the Subsclarium right now with some Asian gobies.  hey tank was getting filthy and they seem like they would annoy other snails.  I put the limpets in on the rocks and held them there until the pulled themselves on.  Once they are attached, they are not coming off!  So, I had to quickly learn how to deal with that from the ACO Tough Specimen Container I acclimated them in.  Sure enough, once the snails were all in and my hand was out the gobies gave the limpets a good going over to see what this new thing was in their tanks.  But they couldn't budge them, so it all seemed to work out.

On 4/8/2022 at 12:42 PM, Torrey said:

I am so sorry for not being more helpful.

You are incredibly helpful!  I don't know what you are talking about.  Thanks for helping me think through what is probably an impossible dream.

On 4/8/2022 at 6:37 PM, Odd Duck said:

I’ve read about a freshwater nerite from Israel

I was totally thinking about that conversation with the member here who posted about them, who is in Israel and has them in their tank!  I was chatting with them about this species,  I should send them another DM.  See if they really don't have a veliger stage. 

As for these ones, we'll see if I go to the trouble.  Although if there was ever a snails that might be worth it...

Also, on the fish front, actually in this tank, I lost a julie.  I think it was bullied to death.  One of the pairs has bred again and I think the tank is getting a bit crowded.  Good thing BAP is coming up so I can offload some of the production from the julies!  For the time being, it's time to give the little ones a new home, methinks. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by OnlyGenusCaps
Forgot the Julie content.

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Well, the current BAP auction for MAS is coming up.  I have plenty of Julies in this tank I could auction, if I could catch them!  The other thing is that there are now at least 4 different ages of fry in the tank.  So they are doing well.  However, the adults have stopped tolerating the oldest fry.  In fact, they have started murdering them!  It's so weird because they take such good care of them as fry and even as juvies.  But then it's like a switch is flicked and BAM, murder time. 

I've tried @Patrick_G's excellent suggestion to use a drink bottled modified into a minnow trap.  No dice.  I only caught snails after a week of trying.  So, this is my new plan.  I've loaded some of the same sort of rocks into my Ziss Breeder Box, which has otherwise proven to be useless, in the hopes that the fry will use the smaller spaces to get away from the adults.  Here is that it looks like (also how great is the app at making my tank look good in photos?!):

Day 1 - No luck.  But it's still new in the tank.  If it doesn't work by day 3, I'm going to turn it on its side and try again.  Maybe this will be the big moment for this breeder box to finally find something it can be used for! 

If not, I think I am going to have to drain the tank and just pull fish that way.  I really don't want to do that with small fry, but I may not have a choice as I have concluded I might be the worst human on the planet at catching fish out of an aquarium.

[Patrick_G]

On 4/20/2022 at 6:50 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

I've tried @Patrick_G's excellent suggestion to use a drink bottled modified into a minnow trap.  No dice. 

😆 Cichlids are way to smart for that! Guppies, on the other hand line up to get trapped. 

Your photo does look great, what app are you using? 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 4/20/2022 at 10:35 PM, Patrick_G said:

Cichlids are way to smart for that!

Oh sure, now you tell me.  🤣  At the very least, I can confirm that Julies are not even close to fooled by the DIY minnow trap.  They did however look at it suspiciously all week.

On 4/20/2022 at 10:35 PM, Patrick_G said:

what app are you using?

One the reefers recommend to color correct LED lights called Aquarium Camera.  I've been pleased with it so far.  It's been particularly good on this tank where I have the blue lights turned up so high. 

[eatyourpeas]

On 4/21/2022 at 4:44 AM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

They did however look at it suspiciously all week.

Probably because it looks like a cool little spaceship! 😍

[OnlyGenusCaps]

So, the Ziss box worked!  Well, sort of...  Within 24hrs of me putting it in with the rocks inside, I had a resident.  A sub-dominant adult.  Who then proceeded to keep all of the fry out.  🙄  Drats!  Foiled again!

This does tell me that as a proof of concept, having a container with rocks in it may work.  I think it just needs to be smaller.  Perhaps if I put the drink bottles back in, but stuffed with rocks?  I think that's my next move.  Ugh.  Got to get these little fish out!

[OnlyGenusCaps]

Let's just say, mistakes were made...

So, I got tired to the murder and mayhem happening among the Julies in this tank.  Pulling out juvenile fish that had been murdered by their parents the day before was becoming disheartening to say the least.  I had to get the young out of there...  And probably the Cyps too. 

The Julies were raising young in the tank no problem.  But the Cyps were making babies and then they deposited them in the rocks, where they became Julie snacks.  The Cyps needed another tank. 

None of the traps were working on the Julie young, and they Cyps didn't seem like traps were going to work for them, so I was left with no other choice but to drain the tank and disrupt the rockwork I had arranged so carefully.  It was a move made out of desperation.

I was able to catch the young Julies, or at least enough of them, fairly easily.  That was a bit surprising.  The Cyps however, were not so easy.  They are fast, will jump a foot out of the water, and much to my surprise, they will wedge themselves deep into the rockwork.  I hadn't expected this from a species that is so adapted to the open water.  I am certain their desperation to get into the holes in these rough rocks left them worse off.  One female, I simply couldn't find for a while.  Not until I started checking each of the rock holes.  She had wedged herself so far into the one of the rocks I don't think she could get out.  I had to, as carefully as I could, extract her myself.  See if you can see her tail sticking out right before I was able to get her:

That wasn't even the worst to come from this intervention.  I got all of the new captives down to the Blue Grass tank in the Subsclarium, where I was hoping the 75 gallons available would allow for the relatively few fish to have enough space.  Oh no.  But more on that in that journal later.

As for the lively and fun P-Salt tank, it seemed boring and lifeless.  As it turns out, the Cyps really were excellent dithers for the Julies.  Without them, most of the Julies hide in the rocks, usually leaving one lone sentinel male viable.   The death has stopped,m but tank just looks empty now.  It is true that the cloud of babies are now much for visible.   But all I can think about is how I am going to catch these out some day...

And as you can see, the rocks don't look as nice as they did.

My task here at this point is to figure out another dither fish for this tank, and to work feverishly on trying to build a better m̶o̶u̶s̶e̶ Julie trap.