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maintaining pH with SeaChem Acid/Alkaline Buffers?


Greg
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Hi all,

I have a 16 gallon planted tank in an area where tap water pH is high, but GH and KH are low.  The API High pH Test comes through a strong violet which looks closer to the 8.4 pH color than the 8.8 pH color on the reference card, but might also be off the chart.  The API GH and KH tests usually read 0-1.  I am keeping danios, kuhli loaches, otocinclus, amano shrimp and snails, and I've tried to keep the pH down to around 8.0 and GH/KH around 6-8.

I've tried combining bottled drinking water with tap water to match the pH in my tank, but while our bottled water is usually below 8.0 pH, sometimes it isn't.

I found the SeaChem Acid Buffer and Alkaline Buffer when looking for a source to raise KH, and have tried to use it to address my KH and pH issues, but have run into two problems.  First, the recommended ratios (such as 2.5 Alkaline to 1 Acid for a pH of 7.5) result in a lower than expected pH (varies, but around 6.5-6.8) when added to my tap water.  Second, the pH of my tank water seems to rise significantly in the 24 hours after I add buffered water to the tank.

I first tried to add Acid and Alkaline Buffer to my tap water to target my tank's pH (then 8.0).  I ended up adding significantly more Alkaline Buffer than expected.  I let the water sit for an hour and added gradually to the tank.  I tested my tank water after and saw no change, but the next day when I retested the pH was up over 8.4 (maybe over 8.8).   Fortunately the animals survived and I was able to pull the pH down by adding 1/4 tsp of Acid Buffer daily.  This seems to lower pH by less than 0.2 each time.

I've searched for suggestions on how to use these buffers, but haven't found much beyond the instructions on the backs, which don't provide much information on these issues.  I can call SeaChem, but wondered if anyone had experience with these, or would suggest another approach.  

I use Equilibrium to raise GH and have crushed coral I could use to raise KH if this Acid/Alkaline Buffer solution is a bust.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

-Greg

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I don’t have an answer to your question, but because I didn’t know what SeaChem Acid Buffer and Alkaline Buffer were, I looked it up.

What I found confuses me as to why you’re using it to lower pH?  Did I misunderstand?

 From what I read, it is used to INCREASE pH and the suggested dosing chart is based on using RO water. I’ve attached a screenshot of what I was reading. 

I’m sure someone who knows a lot more will be way more helpful. Good luck!
 

EEC007C4-44D3-4002-A527-C60CE86A6484.png.a1f6231b55b0311ad026402bfeca7abd.png

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Hi @LaurieinIA!  Thanks for your response.  It's true that if you use Alkaline Buffer alone it should raise your tank's pH.  On the other hand, if you use Acid Buffer alone it should lower pH.  The two are supposed to work together to allow you to target a specific pH.  It says they work together to "adjust pH gradually" which sounds better than using either alone, though in practice I've seen more predictable results when using Acid Buffer in small amounts alone.

If I was only trying to adjust pH, I suppose I could use Acid Buffer alone with some confidence, but I also want to boost KH.

According to their instructions, Acid Buffer and Alkaline Buffer also work to adjusting KH in the tank, with Acid Buffer reducing KH some and Alkaline Buffer increasing KH somewhat more.  I have been able to use the two together to reduce pH and increase KH at the same time, which was my goal, but the pH outcome has been hard to predict.

It seems like it will be less stress on our fish to use crushed coral for KH and other water sources for pH, but would be glad to figure out how these products are supposed to work.

 

 

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@Greg the way you explain it makes more sense. I didn’t realize that they were two separate products that can be used individually and/or together to accomplish more than one ultimate goal... depending on the application.  Another lesson learned from this forum 😊

I hope you find your solution!

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This is maybe not the response you’re looking for but I’ve been using ph-lowering substrate (I think it’s the fluval stratum advertised for keeping crystal shrimp?) along with organic matter to lower my pH (normally 7.6-8) and crushed coral, wondershells, and the occasional tums tablet to keep my kH up.  My GH is always high from the tap, but I think these products help with GH as well as I’ve seen mineral balls (also for shrimpkeeping) which I assume would help boost GH.  
Someone on this forum also told me to try rooibus tea soaked water to increase tannins and help lower pH in one of my tanks that for some reason is always at about 8.4 pH.   I have not seen much difference yet, but am also timid and so probably just haven’t been adding enough. If you’re ok with the black water look, tannin-producing materials might be a good way to naturally add acids to your water. 

I’ve always heard that these methods are much easier (though slower) than using chemical buffers and acidifiers, bc you’ll always be needing to keep up with the latter.  But nonetheless it sounds like what you were doing when you just used the acidifier actually was working to get your pH down, and as others are saying you can use crushed coral (also cuttlebone) to increase kH while continuing to use the acidifier to slowly bring your pH down over time and then maintain the level you want. 
Some ppl use baking soda to raise kH but that is also temporary, potentially dangerous, and I don’t think it makes sense in your situation since it will also raise your pH.

I’m just curious, it sounded like you were keeping animals ok in your parameters? We’re you having troubles or want to keep something else that needs lower pH or just trying to get to a better number for the animals you have?

Edited by SWilson
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Do you have any rocks in your tank? Seachem says you can use it with tap water, but the reality is it's problematic without RO. My advice is to just set the KH, ignore pH and water change.

I use a different product to raise KH. The pH will be very high. But as long as GH and KH are similar, I wouldn't worry. 

My tank pH hits 6.1 and my source water is near 8.9 and I will do a 50% water change. My source TDS is 112ppm and the tank is around 170ppm. So osmotic shock is not a risk. 

If you are worried, just do more frequent smaller water changes with the adjusted source water. Eventually, the tank and source water will sync.

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3 hours ago, BIG GREEN said:

have you tried pet moss to bring down your PH so you can add the Seachem buffer to riase your KH ?

A tank that low in KH is a time bomb and could a have a crash at any point. In doing some research trying to help you find answer for your issue I just learned that  KH is consumed by nitrifying bacteria 24/7, learn something new, anyways I hope you get it figured out, crazy your PH is that high but your KH is low....makes no sense to me

Thanks @BIG GREEN, I'll look into that.  I haven't tried any methods of lowering pH other than using lower pH source water or different Seachem products.  Very interesting that KH is consumed by nitrifying bacteria.  Will need to read up on that more myself.

Mostly thanks to the Seachem Alkaline Buffer, the KH in my tank is around 8 dKH (140 ppm).  The 0-1 dKH figure is for my tap water.

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3 hours ago, SWilson said:

This is maybe not the response you’re looking for but I’ve been using ph-lowering substrate (I think it’s the fluval stratum advertised for keeping crystal shrimp?) along with organic matter to lower my pH (normally 7.6-8) and crushed coral, wondershells, and the occasional tums tablet to keep my kH up.  My GH is always high from the tap, but I think these products help with GH as well as I’ve seen mineral balls (also for shrimpkeeping) which I assume would help boost GH.  
Someone on this forum also told me to try rooibus tea soaked water to increase tannins and help lower pH in one of my tanks that for some reason is always at about 8.4 pH.   I have not seen much difference yet, but am also timid and so probably just haven’t been adding enough. If you’re ok with the black water look, tannin-producing materials might be a good way to naturally add acids to your water. 
. . .

I’m just curious, it sounded like you were keeping animals ok in your parameters? We’re you having troubles or want to keep something else that needs lower pH or just trying to get to a better number for the animals you have?

Thanks, @SWilson, for these suggestions.  I would like a more natural and tempered approach to pH and KH management.  I'll look into these ideas.  I recently replaced the substrate with Eco-Complete, and have heard that it might cause pH to rise.

Other than the occasions when I've seen upswings in pH after water changes using these buffers, I have been pretty successful at maintaining a pH at or below 8.  The swings didn't obviously stress the animals, but they are pretty strong and I was hoping to improve my pH management before introducing less bullet-proof fish.

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2 hours ago, Mmiller2001 said:

Do you have any rocks in your tank? Seachem says you can use it with tap water, but the reality is it's problematic without RO. My advice is to just set the KH, ignore pH and water change.

I use a different product to raise KH. The pH will be very high. But as long as GH and KH are similar, I wouldn't worry. 

My tank pH hits 6.1 and my source water is near 8.9 and I will do a 50% water change. My source TDS is 112ppm and the tank is around 170ppm. So osmotic shock is not a risk. 

If you are worried, just do more frequent smaller water changes with the adjusted source water. Eventually, the tank and source water will sync.

Thanks, @Mmiller2001.  This is very interesting.  I do have some rocks in the tank and they are supposed to raise GH and pH.  I also use Eco-Complete which I have heard raises pH, along with some driftwood and other sources of plant decay that might push the other way.  Before adding these Seachem buffers into the mix, pH had been relatively stable, with a trend of slightly increasing over time, but I found KH was low.  Will consider adopting smaller water changes or maybe shifting back to RO water, but it sounds like maybe I don't need to worry about it.

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I'd personally stay away from acid buffers, I think it will be hard to do it with your tap water parameters without ending up with large ph swings. I'd recommend either getting an RO unit or buying distilled water. You can use crushed coral and wonder shell to raise kh and gh to target levels, or buy a buffering mix, or you can try using baking soda and epsom salt to raise gh and kh to target levels. If you can get your tank to stable water parameters, and if it's well planted and you don't have it terribly overstocked, you can work on reducing the time between water changes while maintaining stable water parameters. If your kh starts to drop, you can top off with distilled/RO water that has buffer or kh added to it. You can also keep your tanks covered to reduce evaporation and top offs.

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3 hours ago, ererer said:

I'd personally stay away from acid buffers, I think it will be hard to do it with your tap water parameters without ending up with large ph swings. I'd recommend either getting an RO unit or buying distilled water. You can use crushed coral and wonder shell to raise kh and gh to target levels, or buy a buffering mix, or you can try using baking soda and epsom salt to raise gh and kh to target levels. If you can get your tank to stable water parameters, and if it's well planted and you don't have it terribly overstocked, you can work on reducing the time between water changes while maintaining stable water parameters. If your kh starts to drop, you can top off with distilled/RO water that has buffer or kh added to it. You can also keep your tanks covered to reduce evaporation and top offs.

Thanks, @ererer.  Appreciate all the suggestions.  I've been using Equilibrium for GH and will try the crushed coral for KH and go back to using distilled/RO water with my tap water to adjust pH.

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