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Help, Apisto suddenly super aggressive towards Betta


Sean
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Hey all, 

I have a 20 gal community tank here and it started with the male Betta (long term I will be upgrading to at least 30gal). I then added some pork chop Rasboras, Ember Tetras, 1 angelfish as center piece and finally a double red Apisto. All of which I bought here at co-op, which they said should typically act as a friendly tank. I don’t expect things to always be sweet and tidy as nature also doesn’t allow that, but I also don’t want all out wars being waged. 
 

They were all getting along really well in fact and actually played together. It was a peaceful time in the swimming hole....

then both Betta and Angelfish got fin rot and I isolated them in a hospital tank with salt and meds. They are both recovering and doing better now. Bettas fins are still in healing phase but doing better. 
 

I then decided to reintroduce both of them into the 20gal again while maintaining meds in there to ensure any bacteria that started this is killed completely. But immediately the Apisto started chasing them and actually hunting the Betta, and when he would find him, would literally thrash him. So I moved the betta back in isolation but the Angelfish seems to handling his own well enough. 
 

things have calmed down in there it seems but I would really prefer to get Betta back in his home without him getting effed up. 
 

what might you all suggest or try to help reintroduce him to the tank again? I know some of you would be like, bigger tank, but that’s not possible currently and they are all pretty small and have decent space to play etc. But help me or roast me, either way 😉 

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I have no first hand experience with this kind of situation, but it seems to me that you need to take the apisto out, put the betta in, let the betta settle in for a week, and then add the apisto again. Right now the apisto views the tank as his territory. But if you take him out, wait a bit, and then add him back in, he may view it as a new, unfamiliar territory and be more accepting of whatever fish come with it.

Not sure how good a fish’s memory is, but maybe rearrange a plant or two while he’s gone just in case.😄

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It sounds like territorial aggression remove the apisto rearrange  any wood or rock in the tank put the Betta and apisto back in to the tank at the same time  so the apisto doesn't have time to set territory

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There are a lot of problems with this setup. You didn't state which species of apisto you have - there are over a 100 different species with different behavior and requirements. You also didn't indicate the age of the fish (juvi or adults) nor if your tank is a 20 long or 20 high. You also did not provide the sex of your apisto. It is marginally difficult to give an answer to a long term solution without these details - though removing the apisto and re-adding short term might work chances are long term there will be an unhappy ending. 

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Last but least a 20 long or 20 high is way too small for an adult angel; i suspect your angel is a juvi or runt but if it is not a runt by the time it reaches adult age (less than a year) you will want a larger tank.

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1 minute ago, anewbie said:

There are a lot of problems with this setup. You didn't state which species of apisto you have - there are over a 100 different species with different behavior and requirements. You also didn't indicate the age of the fish (juvi or adults) nor if your tank is a 20 long or 20 high. You also did not provide the sex of your apisto. It is marginally difficult to give an answer to a long term solution without these details - though removing the apisto and re-adding short term might work chances are long term there will be an unhappy ending. 

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Last but least a 20 long or 20 high is way too small for an adult angel; i suspect your angel is a juvi or runt but if it is not a runt by the time it reaches adult age (less than a year) you will want a larger tank.

Being kind while being helpful is one the things valued highly on the forum. I know I can get frustrated sometimes because nuances can easily be lost in written communication. If more details would be helpful a friendly tone goes a long way.

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5 minutes ago, anewbie said:

There are a lot of problems with this setup. You didn't state which species of apisto you have - there are over a 100 different species with different behavior and requirements. You also didn't indicate the age of the fish (juvi or adults) nor if your tank is a 20 long or 20 high. You also did not provide the sex of your apisto. It is marginally difficult to give an answer to a long term solution without these details - though removing the apisto and re-adding short term might work chances are long term there will be an unhappy ending. 

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Last but least a 20 long or 20 high is way too small for an adult angel; i suspect your angel is a juvi or runt but if it is not a runt by the time it reaches adult age (less than a year) you will want a larger tank.

I mentioned it was a Double red Apisto. That’s the name co-op had for it.
 

It and all my fish are males just to keep it simple. 
 

I have had them no longer than 2months. They are juveniles. 
 

and yes I know that long term a 20gal is going to get small for the Angelfish especially. But they’re all small at the moment. Dimensions are 30”l x 13” h x 13” w. I do plan on upgrading to at least a tall 30gal in a year or sooner depending on how fast they grow. 

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You have a 20 long. The double red is most likely a cockatoo but it could be an Agassizi. Double red is a colour not a species. The cockatoo tend to stay torwards the bottom while betta will mostly stay near the top but with a 13 inch tall tank there is not much of a top or bottom (I have no experience with agassizi). As others noted it is likely territory but the problem with simply removing and re-adding if the fish is establishing territory it will eventually try to re-establish one as it ages. You can of course try that and it may work for  a while but i would worry about the long term stability. Adding plants, driftwood or rocks to sort of create a territory might work as the fish will use natural barrier to establish a perimeter. Also a taller tank might help (which you will soon need for the angel). A 30 breeder will not be a good fit for the angel as it is also 12 inches tall. Probably the 50 breeder is the smallest tank that is a 'good' for the angel though a 29 is probably ok for a single angel (the 50 breeder is 19 inches tall and the 29 is 18). With the taller thank the betta will also spend more time near the top causing less friction with the low swimming apisto.

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