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pH help. Post 2


YIACrazy
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So I posted about this earlier and I was offered great advice for typical situations, but I have several tanks and this is out of my typical. My pH is usually around 7 ish, but no kH, so I tend to add crushed coral to my substrate. So an extremely high pH is way out of my normal. I never really understood the actual chemistry, but I get where my water parameters should be... Expect now I'm clueless and need real help. I made a daphnia set up. It's got way too much light, aquarium gravel, some guppy grass, some CC and like 6 guppy fry. I think I attached a photo. Yeah, the bottom is kinda gross...I want to save any eggs....but I haven't fed yeast....no detritus worms. pH is off the chart. Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite are O. kH was about 40. I tried a 25% water change....(it rains in ponds) and the kH dropped out, pH didn't budge, but honestly, it could be so high that a drop is still higher than measurable. Crushed Coral could never raise pH that high....so what could raise pH that high?

Thanks. 

Yes, one is a tetra strips, one is the Co-op strip. 

 

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PXL_20210412_090300647.jpg

Edited by YIACrazy
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Can you get an API Freshwater Master Test Kit? It’s worth it if you’re looking at constantly off-the-charts readings.

Test your source water: (1) right from the tap, and (2) after letting it sit with a gentle air stone bubbling in a container over night.

You’ll want to buy the API KH and GH drops too. They function a little differently from the other API Master Test Kit titration tests.

So... meanwhile, as you’re getting these things together... let’s evaluate your situation...

You write, “I have several tanks and this is out of my typical. My pH is usually around 7 ish, but no kH, so I tend to add crushed coral to my substrate.” By this, are you saying that your _other_ tanks are _still_ running around 7-ish pH, but just _this_ one is having issues? Do you run crushed coral in _all_ of your tanks?

You write, “pH is off the chart. Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite are O. kH was about 40. I tried a 25% water change....(it rains in ponds) and the kH dropped out, pH didn't budge, but honestly, it could be so high that a drop is still higher than measurable. Crushed Coral could never raise pH that high....so what could raise pH that high?” I’m sure you’re absolute clear in your mind... but I’m just a tad confused (sorry). Are you saying pH is off the chart in _just this tank_? Was KH 40 _with crushed coral_? Is this a pond? Are you changing with rain water? KH “dropped out” after a water change?

One way to think about the chemistry is this:

pH measures the number of H+ ions in a liquid. The more acidic, the lower the pH — but the HIGHER number of H+ ions. So, for example, 6.0 pH is a “low” pH in aquarium terms... meaning it is _high_ in H+ ions. Acids cut and bite, disintegrate and burn because those H+ ions are trying to balance and bond with molecules. This is how grade-school volcano science demonstrations work — vinegar or lemon juice are acids, and when mixed with baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) the fizzing, bubbling overflow is the chemical reaction of the H+ ions in those liquids rapidly reacting with the powder.  In an aquarium, everything is typically much subtler in variance. Hardness — minerals dissolved in your water — absorb / combine with H+ ions to balance out the water. If there is virtually no hardness (i. e. “soft water”) then whatever degree of H+ ions — or absence thereof — has _no buffer_ against sky-rocketing  or plummeting pH measurements. This is why crushed coral is often added to soft water to provide buffer against pH swings.

So... if your measurements are correct... it sounds like something, either at your source, or in the tank, is moving your pH towards a very alkaline / base chemistry. Is there limestone in the tank? Is there limestone where you’re drawing your water from? Somehow those H+ ions have been chemically drawn out..

Does this make sense?

Edited by Fish Folk
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Hmm, thats sorta what i was thinking, calcareous rock like limestone can continuously drive PH up. What type of substrate do you use? Like @Fish Folk said get a GH and KH test kit, this will provide more clues. I would not normally recommend using PH down product, but API does put out a PH down, and a PH up product that can temporarily adjust your PH until we get to the bottom of it. I look forward to your response to @Fish Folk’s post, so we can figure this out. Do test your source water like he suggested, that will be a big help as well. 

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The tank just had standard Aquarium gravel with some crushed coral. As for the water, I have been using distilled water reminerilized with shrimp gH+/kH+ for NeoCardinia shrimp. My water kills shrimp. Never understood why, but they do well with this....pH, kH, gH are always in a sweet spot. Those tanks do not have any crushed coral however. The substrate for the tank in question had some from a previous set up. I guess It was about a month into running that I noticed the pH jump. I don't know what kH gH buffers they use in shrimp salt, but from what I understand, CC shouldn't make the pH go higher that 7.4/7.6. it might make the hardness crazy.  I do understand the chemistry at the most basic level, but not enough to help me. There are various buffers and salts. CC I want mostly to raise my kH. It's non-existent. My pH exists normally around 6.8. Without CC, the pH will crash in a heartbeat. However the slight increase in pH and kH requires a huge amount of CC..... And while I am not sure, my GH turns my water to rock. It just always seemed out of proportion....like it was fighting against another buffer in my water. When I first started in the hobby, I tried one of those alkaline/acid buffers. I called the company because they didn't work. The representative told me then that their buffer was fighting the buffers in my water.... And I have always called my water wacky. Honestly, the fish don't mind the parameters. The shrimp get RODI with shrimp salt. Maybe it is the Crushed Coral with shrimp salt.... In which case, I need to remove the CC. Otherwise I have nothing else to add to trouble shoot.

Thanks.

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