nabokovfan87

7.4. I would re-test with the low range kit.

How are things going? @Terri57 @Chick-In-Of-TheSea Any more ich treatments, meds, or issues popping up? I just tried to catch up on the thread and wanted to check in.

The difficulty with water changes is not knowing how much of the nutrient you need is in the water. The easiest way to handle it is probably using potassium in powder or liquid form. As always, the best thing to do is to start slow when adding new dosing to the tank. I would be interested to see if you're having the 20 ppm nitrate levels from Easy Green or from the bioload and feeding regime. Let's say it's caused by feeding. Then you can increase volume or water changes short term to drop those levels and long term you adjust your maintenance to better handle that load. This allows you to increase your dosing of easy green (knowing what is causing the nitrate levels) and potentially that solves the issue of potassium. To determine where the nitrates are coming from what you'd want to do is to test daily for 2-3 days and see what happens to the levels. If you're gaining ~0-5 ppm per day that's probably a very well stocked tank, the plants are balanced. If you're gaining ~10+ ppm per day it would indicate that your levels are generally coming from the fish, feeding, and you can drop them with water changes. You would then review what your maintenance schedule is like. Potentially this might be a bump from ~30% water changes every other week to a ~50% water change. Not really too big of an adjustment, but it does allow you to understand what the test strip is indicating and the day to day changes with your fertz and other things going on in the tank. Meaning, if you're dosing (just randomly throwing out a number here) 1 full dose of Easy Green for the tank per week. By dropping nitrates to 0-10 and then you dose your normal dose and then test in ~1 hour and record that nitrate level. Repeat that nitrate test in 3-4 days and see if you're back to the original 0-10 level. If those nitrates are still very low or nearly the same level, this means you could benefit from that midweek dose. It would indicate the plants are using all of the fertilizer in those first ~3-4 days.

Danios and Corydoras generally like "cooler" tanks. I don't think what you have is an issue, but just something to look into. AqAdvisor is a tool that takes all the fish in the tank and recommends things like a temp to keep them at. This might put one fish at a disadvantage in a preference for another, but.... it's a place to start. As for the swelling, I would starve them for ~3 days and look to see if you see any improvement. If you don't I would then try an epsom salt bath for the fish in question. Do a ton of research on this. I have an article I found which gives directions for a betta fish and seems decently well. I can send you that if need be, but I have not done this or can suggest what the right ratio of epsom salt would be. You mentioned having issues catching the fish, so I'll pass this along. With danios especially it might be easier to drain the talk ~50% or so and then use this method to catch the one you need to. As for fixing the issues with the tank and fish, beyond trying to let the fish pass anything internally or equalize fluid issues, I would try to lower nitrates from ~40 ppm down to ~10-20 ppm. If your nitrates are purely high because of dosing fertilizer only, that's fine, but it might encourage algae growth at that level (potentially). Lowering the nitrates won't hurt anything and just keeping an eye on the levels by testing every 2-3 days will give you an idea if it's based on feeding or on dosing. With the PSO in the tank I don't think you'd have any issues with the nitrate levels dropping 🙂 .

1000% I moved about 2 miles down the road from city water to a place that has septic and was parameters (probably due to the age of the pipes and a few other factors) were changed purely based on KH. As a result of the lower KH, I had PH issues, which is a risk on the shrimp and fish Especially when you're swinging from 6.8 to 6.0 every 3 days on a very understocked tank. It isn't a great situation, but I also don't have a great way to run CC without having a canister. WC to keep PH even, weren't enough to keep things stable and it's just something where I used CC for the first time to try and give myself the longevity needed to last week to week with a stable enough tank. That didn't work either. I totally understand the risk / issues. Hopefully you find a solution that works for you.

LOOOOOL I definitely didn't change any media. Never do unless something real bad happens. The worms had me considering it, but never swapped it out yet. Especially when the worms are IN THE MEDIA. Yes. It's not easy to find one. I believe some of the more "common" ones might be usable, but I can't verify what's in the bottle very easily. I tried to search for a list and it was not easy to find. There is a video of Cory and Lamont discussing the topic that I can find if you need me to. Here is a thread on the topic as well: 1. Yes it will be stressful. It might have been other reasons for the losses as mentioned above. You also could still have ich in the tank in the substrate waiting to hatch. 2. You don't have to run the airstone all the time, but it definitely is useful to have in the tank. You can hook it up to a ziss airstone and metal gang valve and be able to fine tune the flow / turbulence. This is likely mandatory if you add an airstone to a betta tank if your pump is just too strong. We have seen a few bettas have fin rot as a result of the stress from water being too turbulent, so I wouldn't recommend adding one in the case of that situation. While you are treating for meds, it is generally a good idea to have an airstone because of how it changes the viscosity of the water. If you have a concern about a specific fish behavior please feel free to share a video of the fish in motion. 3. Definitely tough. If you need to run carbon for 1-2 weeks as well, that might be helpful.

Yeah. I have seen reports. I assume that the biggest thing is acclimating them to that PH very slowly (or they are just more used to it from the start). This goes back into local parameters of where the fish (or shrimp) are born and how that water compares to my vs. your water vs. their natural habitat and that data we have available. Nature finds a way.... I had molting issues when PH rose and it may purely be just the rate at PH swings (issues with KH stability).

You can also try just using seiryu stone to buffer the water slightly. I use alkaline buffer to raise mine. Would raising KH slightly cause PH issues?

Regardless of whether it is or isn't tank raised, etc. It's very likely a good idea to treat for internal parasites. It might be Camallanus Worms but that looks pretty gigantic for those. My other "could be" idea being something like a prolapsed vent or trying to pass something that is way too stressful on the fish. Expel-P or epsom salt baths might be useful. I 1000000% would not suggest doing the epsom salt baths without a ton of research and verifying that a puffer can go through that process.

The biggest one right now is just feeding protein heavy foods (for a short time) or increasing feedings (for a short time). I can't speak to how this works with loaches, but that's the standard for a lot of fish. Feeding live foods, worms, baby brine, multiple times per day, etc.

Just a fun video on the topic. I would encourage you to check out aquahuna to get some more white clouds if you really want the normal variety 🙂

Fuzzy points towards a fungal issue. You'd treat with Ich-X (and potentially also salt).

No issues at all, we are all here to help one another 🙂 I am not sure. @Chick-In-Of-TheSea@Colu what do you think? Is there anything in the tank (decor or something) where the fish could injure themselves on? Have you seen them flashing at all? Flashing, just means, they try to "scratch" by swimming and then rubbing their side in the sand or on decor.

Everything I am seeing, what you have in the tank currently will help. What you're dealing with is essentially Old Tank Syndrome. Water is missing minerals and other things naturally found in your water and doing water changes will slowly increase those. 50% water changes, weekly until parameters rise. You can also do this slowly over time. It comes down to stuff like plants using those minterals, fish waste, and a few other things. Here is a few links on the topics of what is going on. First is the relation of PH --> KH and how missing some of those minerals has lowered the PH in your tank. https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/ph-gh-kh Second is trying to understand what caused them to lower in numbers (meaning your KH and GH, and as a result your PH.

I've heard people on here recommend freezing water bottles and then floating those in the aquarium. Refreeze them and then repeat that process as need be. You can point a fan at the surface of the tank and then leave the lid open as well. This will increase evaporation which allows for cooling. The room that the tank is in, just making sure the room itself is cool enough that might be a good way to handle it as well, if possible. It's good to hear airflow is done well. Do you have an airstone, or just the HoBs? Having high flow is different then oxygenation. The surface agitation should be plenty, but just a note. I would try to verify the temp on the tank with a secondary source. Most thermometers have an adjustment and after a certain amount of time I have had one that was ~15 degrees off. It happens, and just something to verify. I don't know what all is in the tank, so you might have one species that needs the hotter temps and others that don't. The difference between 76-78 vs. 80-82 is a pretty big one though for a species that wants to be in the lower ranges.

Do you happen to know which one? Platys: up to 8.5 PH Mollies: up to 8.5 PH Gourami: up to 7.8 PH (I see reports of higher, stating that very slow acclimation is recommended)

Goes back to earlier and I was trying to understand what's fully going on. Not adding an airstone, but adding meds might be what caused issues. Heck, because of the temps I would even add 2 airstones if you need to. Some fish, especially cooler species (corydoras) really need that oxygenation when the temps get hot. It's a very stressful process, predicable disease, but it's just so difficult to have the fish suffering and then to have to let that happen to cure them. I think your best bet it to remove the snails, treat as above, but make sure that it's done in the way to best protect everything in the tank. Salt dose: 1/2 cup per 10G Erythromycin / Maracyn: Follow directions on the package, make sure you have enough if you need to run a second week of treatment. Ich-X: Order more now if you need to. The goal being to change 30-50% of the water prior to every dose of this stuff. It's easier if you can dose it, then repeat that dose every 24 hours. The bottle explains it decently well, I'll grab the label just for clarity sake: https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/how-to-treat-ich-on-freshwater-fish

Agreed. I had the same thing happen and I went through 3 bottles of Ich-X. It was not fun, but I can say I HIGHLY recommend the Aquarium Co-op measure glass for dosing. The tank, display or not, now has ich. So you're going to end up treating the tank or you risk having more issues. You can..... Remove the fish, then heat the tank up very warm for an extended period to minimize risk. For the Ich to be killed, you need it to complete the cycle, for the cycle to be completed you need to have the fish. It's a nasty one to get, and it can be extremely stressful. I had to bring my tank from 70 degrees up as high as the fish would tolerate. I ended up losing about half of the tank and it took about ~3 weeks before I even saw some improvement because I had to slowly ramp up the temp every few days. It all depends on how you want to handle it, my best advice.... treat the tank with salt + Ich-X + Erythromycin and it's a huge risk, but that's just the way that I've seen Cory handle it and recommended elsewhere with success.

your parameters from the off-gassing test would be what you'd expect to see in the tank. I would do 50% water changes every 2-3 days until parameters match the tap. You need to verify what is in the tank can handle those parameters. Things in play here in the tank that will alter those parameters are substrate, hardscape, and buffers. I don't think you're using buffers, I don't recall the substrate (but I assume it's inert), and even if you had massive amounts of wood I wouldn't expect the vast difference we are seeing in PH, KH, from the tank vs. your tap. For the time being, you'd just want to perform those water changes. Amanos don't like PH above 7.5 in my experience. Which means you'd want to find something else. As for what works best in high PH and hard water, I don't have the answer to that, but I can try to figure it out with you 🙂 From a brief search, it looks like Red Cherry Shrimp (or similar neocaridina potentially) would be best bets for the tank once you match the tap parameters.

This is typically normal. It could also be a sign that it wasn't Ich. ------------------ OK so.... Generally speaking with Ich there is a few things at play. A. The tank is hosting the disease, not simply one fish, so you're treating the tank as much as you are the fish themselves. Even when you do not see white spots on the fish, you could still have the ich in it's lifecycle in the tank substrate. B. Whenever you have sick fish, treating with meds you automatically should add an airstone. C. Whenever you treat for Ich you want to also treat for bacterial because the white spots disappear and leave open wounds on the fish. this could lead to a secondary fungal / bacterial infection. Ich-X treats the fungal, while Erythromycin (or Maracyn) will treat the bacterial. You CAN treat the ich itself first, then follow up with a treatment of bacterial, either method is acceptable, but one has slightly more risk. You continue to treat the ich for 3-7 days following the last point when you stop seeing white spots on the fish. Meaning, at that point you're treating the substrate and tank itself for the cysts that will hatch out. Normally, whenever dosing for Ich, I would suggest aquarium salt as well. Because of the snail, this isn't something that's possible. I do not think Ich-X directly caused the issues but potentially heat, parameters, filtration, aeration could've contributed to the losses on top of the stress of the medication itself. I have used Ich-X a few times with snails and shrimp without any losses or issues.

Your best bet is probably to do a full treatment with Ich-X again. Directions on the ACO Website specify:

What substrate is that? How is your filter setup? Yeah, the big thing here is just to keep in mind you need to sanitize / clean / dry out / or whatever other method of sterilization for the sake of "treating the tank" as both were contaminated. You can use bleach, you can use a few things to do this. I would do this to the equipment as well as the tank so you can start to set it up and re-cycle everything again. Can you please test the water for everything you're able to test and let us know. As well as temp.

1000% agreed. Especially if you hook it up to a metal valve and can tune the flow of air into the box and make it nice and quiet! I have used the cheap-o mesh ones, plastic ones, they all aren't big enough or just don't attach well to a tank. The nice thing about the Fluval (i.e. marina) boxes is that they work well without impeding on the tank itself. They don't sit in the tank and so you have this specimen container type of interaction and can use it with a normal versatop lid without much hassle. I took a little piece of airline hose, cut it open on one end to cover the edge of the glass from marking the plastic and that worked well too. The ziss ones are nice, but again.... I think you can do a lot more with the hang-on back style ones.

I would definitely start with: A. Remove all the plants into a bucket of tank water so you can clean them or treat them with H202 or Rapid Respiration (selzter water). The RR is probably a lot easier to do, details in the thread above. B. Remove the rocks, clean them with a brush or sponge somewhere and remove as much as you can of this algae C. Gravel Vacuum the tank really well to remove what stuff is on the top layer of the substrate. D. Test everything AFTER you do a 50% WC and then report back so we can see if it's something based on nitrates, ammonia, feeding, lights, etc. If we want to look at lights, we need to know the setup of the tank / light (how is it setup on the tank) and whatever the settings are for the light in question.

Is it potentially based on the lights coming on / off or exterior light from a window?