VernalPool

@Colu@xXInkedPhoenixX Neon tetra disease was the answer I expected, but not the one I wanted. Since all fish show some sign of disease, I will euthanize them all tonight and begin breaking down the nano tank, etc. Tomorrow, I'll move the snail and 2 Ammano shrimp to a 2.5 gallon I have empty and try to come up with a better plan for them. Looks like I'll have an extended break ahead of me. ☹️

@scott the fishman@Taco Playz@lefty o@Radar@CalmedByFish@Atitagain@Guppysnail@Griznatch Thank you for the warm welcome! I love it here already! @Radar If you look at a map of the US and find the place that is as far away as you can get from all the oceans, that's me. Looking forward to those -20, -30, -50 F wind chills on the midwestern plains (not). I've loved reading people's posts from all over the country and the world. I haven't posted any pics of my tank because, honestly, I'm fearful I may have to tear the whole thing down and start over. I've posted the whole sad saga under "Plot thickens" ..... in the Disease forum. Let's just say my get-an-aquarium-to-have-a-relaxing-hobby plan has not yet panned out. However, I expect that my very steep learning curve will be useful for the future.

Edit: Last paragraph: " .....realistic and safe way to (clean) this planted tank....."

Furan-2 was added to the water this morning (11/28/21) but the fish continue to rapidly deteriorate. If it wasn’t for being able to take pictures and blow them up, I’m not even sure I’d know something was wrong yet on these little nano fish. I’m including photos of today's disease progression. There is Furan-2 in the tank with just an airstone so the water is a bit yellow. The fish will receive their first medicated feeding this evening. I am writing this with as much detail as I can in hopes of some more answers, but also to document disease progression as I know how invaluable the pictures and information from others here on the CARE forum have been to me. Bless you all and, particularly @Cory for having the vision to create this community and hire such astounding staff! Here is one of the surviving hatchetfish. Notice the dark line outlining its sternum and the darkness of its inner organs. That was also present in the Patient 0, the original hatchetfish that died. You can see it on the first pic in this thread; I totally missed that change. Given that the hatchets are conveniently transparent and I’m not knowledgeable on fish innards, perhaps there are some more clues inside that I am missing. The surviving CPD has a sunken area behind its head and its spine is also sunken. You can also see this in the center fish in the group of ember tetras. At least one of the pygmy corydoras appears to have a disruption in its lateral line right above the pectoral fin. One of the corys also may have a small node on its belly but I can never get a good look. I realize this is a symptom or condition and not a disease, but would you say these photos are consistent with canal neuromast inflammation? I’m working on learning to recognize these things. I learned that it is most prevalent in cichlids but they seem to have the hallmarks. The final pic in this post has a very good close-up. I am suspecting that the move from the quarantine tank to the nano tank set off the dormant neon tetra disease, if that is indeed what this is, or maybe disease was already brewing and I didn’t see it because these fish are so very very small. The final three photos are the most detailed. The sun was low in the sky for a few minutes so it lit up the ember tetras nicely. The first pic shows a group of ember tetras in various stages of disease progression. The second pic shows how the white spots near the eyes of the fish are ulcerating. It appears the fish's eyes are starting to protrude. The final picture is the most detailed of all (but all pics lost resolution, sorry)—pay particular attention to the sparkles along the lateral line and abdomen. A couple other details: you can see that some of the fish are outlined along the top or top and bottom with white and a couple fish have some type of growth by their lips—easiest to see in the CPD photo. One strange thing I noticed was that as I noticed this illness begin the abdomens of some of the ember tetras took on a greenish cast (see 2nd to last photo). @Colu@xXInkedPhoenixX@Brandon p and others with expertise, please let me know if you think this presentation is still consistent with neon tetra disease? Should I be concerned that this may be fish TB (mycobacteriosis)? Any new theories? If I do lose or need to euthanize all of the fish, is there a realistic and safe was to use this planted tank with its nerite and Amanos to also house fish again to eliminate the possibility of reinfection of future fish?

@Colu@xXInkedPhoenixX@Brandon p Many thanks for your time, advice, and knowledge--sharing information that likely involves a hard, sad outlook can never be fun. This morning I will start the Furan-2 in the nano tank and, as soon as the LFS opens, will go purchase the Focus and Entice or Garlic Guard so I can start the medicated feedings. The illness is definitely advancing among the inhabitants. Not to be morbid, but assuming I have a fresh corpse during a weekday, I'll see about getting my vet to culture it to determine what exactly I am dealing with. I will keep you and the rest of the CARE community up-to-date on what transpires.

@Brandon p@xXInkedPhoenixX If it is indeed hemorrahagic sepsi the issue looks incredibly daunting, particularly because the water column would be involved. Since heat seems to dampen it, I've started to increase the heat in the tank. Now I am going to the big box store to round up some more med options and aquarium salt. Edit: Yes, the spots look like ich on the oto pic, just not as many spots. @Colu If you have a treatment regime recommendation, I would appreciate it. My logistics plan is to a) move all fish to the hospital tank; b) move inverts to a temporary tank; and c) figure out how to treat the water column in the planted nano tank.

@Brandon p@xXInkedPhoenixX If it is indeed hemorrahagic sepsi the issue looks incredibly daunting, particularly because the water column would be involved. Since heat seems to dampen it, I've started to increase the heat in the tank. Now I am going to the big box store to round up some more med options and aquarium salt. @Colu If you have a treatment regime recommendation, I would appreciate it. My logistics plan is to a) move all fish to the hospital tank; b) move inverts to a temporary tank; and c) figure out how to treat the water column in the planted nano tank.

@Colu@xXInkedPhoenixX More symptoms have shown up in the tank. Small white bumps have appeared on some of the ember tetras. The final 2 pics are different views of the same fish. I'm not sure if this is yet another issue or how the problem began with the pygmy hatchetfish and/or the celestial pearl danio. Both the CPD and the pygmy hatchet died shortly after going into the hospital tank, quickly losing their ability to swim. I'm not sure if the stress of the move put them over the edge. Hospital tank parameters are nitrates 0, nitrites 0, GH 25, buffer 40, pH 6.4, and chlorine 0. I did not test for ammonia because it was fresh RO water as of last night. All surviving parties in the nano tank are accounted for: 2 pygmy hatchetfish, 6 ember tetras, 1 celestial pearl danio, 2 pygmy corydoras, 2 Amano shrimp, and1 clithano corona snail. I'm going to give more background about the initial quarantine when I purchased the fish as it may be more pertinent than I realized. (I am SO new to this.) Once quarantine was completed, all fish (purchased at same time from LFS) were added to the cycled tank it already contained the Amano shrimp that had been present for weeks and the very recently arrived clithon corona (horned nerite snail). I had the snails directly to the nano tank after acclimating after receiving mail order. One snail was disposed of after not moving after 48 hours per vendor instructions. A second snail was initially active but stopped moving after 24-36 hrs and was disposed of after not moving for 48 hrs. The fish were not added until a week after the second dead snail was removed from the tank. While the fish were in there initial quarantine, they did have an otocinclus with them that I euthanized after he had nodules that did not respond to treatment. The quarantine tank did have a few green neons that died or were euthanized after what I ultimately decided was most likely neon tetra disease. As I mentioned earlier, all fish in the initial quarantine tank were treated with ACO trio (Maracyn, ParaCleanse, Ich-X). When the oto got sick, I took pics to the LFS where I purchased all the fish and was told they 'really don't do that' but pointed me to the medication section. When the green neons got sick immediately following the oto, I dosed with KanaPlex and Furan-2 as I suspected the green neons had columnaris. On Day 5 of the columnaris treatment I did not do the final dose of KanaPlex and Furan-2 as I figured out it was neon tetra disease. *Failing to do the final dose was also probably a mistake but I was concerned about dosing meds they didn't need. Clearly my biggest mistakes were purchasing ALL my fish at the same time as they likely passed disease between them and failing to quarantine the snails. All fish did have a 2nd round of ParaCleanse after the otocinclus was euthanized. The 2 Amano shrimp and 1 snail have had no treatment. The dots currently on the ember tetras do not look like the nodules that were on the oto. In addition to Maracyn, KanaPlex, Furan-2, Ich-X, API Stress Coat+, API Stress Zyme+, and API aquarium salt, I have the following parasite medication on hand: Fritz Coppersafe, Fritz Expel-P, and ParaCleanse. If it can be safely and effectively done for the occupants and plants, I would like to treat the nano tank at this point. I'm starting to feel like the grim reaper. I apologize if there are duplicates of the pics, I'm still learning how to use the forum. Edit: I began with 3 snails. Edit: "their initial quarantine" 🙄

@ColuPrior to seeing your advice, I had already treated the hospital tank with Maracyn and 1 T of aquarium salt. I've been acclimating the hatchet to the water but he is still in the specimen container at this point. Would you advise that I add the Ich-X to the meds already in the tank and simply not add further Maracyn? Or would I be better off draining the hospital tank and starting over? (*"that" edited to clarify I meant the hospital tank and not the specimen container) @xXInkedPhoenixX@Colu Thank you both for your help and time, on a holiday weekend night no less! I decided to go ahead and drain the hospital tank and medicate with only Ich-X and aquarium salt as I have the time and the water. x XinkedPhoenixX, no worries--this was a very, very helpful learning experience for me. Hopefully, I'll be able to post an "all better now" picture in the near future. : ) 11/27/21 UPDATE & NEWLY SPOTTED FISH INJURY: This morning I found that the pygmy hatchetfish did not survive the night in the hospital tank but, interestingly, the fungus was gone. However, I noticed that in the 8 gl nano tank one of my two Celestial Pearl Danios (CPD) had the same or similar injury/issue that would have occurred around the same time. I'm now beginning to suspect that these two fish were attacked by my smallest male ember tetra. I know, I know--ember tetras are reputably a peaceful fish and that is why they are tank mates. However, I have seen a particular ember male chasing the CPD's and other embers and trying to take nips. I suspect now that he went after the pygmy hatchetfish while the hatchet was recuperating from getting his front half stuck between the filter and the wall (filter since replaced and new one out from wall). I did not see any type of tail injury on the hatchet until the following day but I am open to the idea I overlooked something or even that the injured/deceased hatchet was not the hatchet that was stuck--I have two little males(?) that look exactly the same. I looked back in my pictures from 11/25/21 and saw a tiny injury I overlooked on the CPD on that date. I've attached that pic, two taken of the same fish today (each side), and I'm reposting the pic of the now deceased pygmy hatchet. The CPD is now in the 5 gl hospital tank with 1 T aquarium salt and dosed with Ich-X. The nano tank (main tank) parameters are: 0.25 ammonia as of 11/26/21 eve (dosed with Prime last night and 15% water change this morning) and prior to water change today with ACO test strip (11/27/21): nitrate 10, nitrite 0, hardness 300, buffer 20, pH 6.4, and chlorine 0. When I use API test kits a few of the parameters are consistently different than these same ACO numbers--typically hardness 179 ppm/10 dKH, buffer 35.8 ppm/2 dKH, and pH 7.6. Temperature in the nano tank ranges from 73-75; I just reset the thermometer down to 72. This planted tank was first set up on 9/26/21 and underwent a fishless cycle. Plants are really just starting to get established; there are many but mostly small. All fish in the tank were quarantined together starting in early October on the ACO trio and had a 2nd round of Paracleanse before being placed into the nano tank last weekend. Tank occupants: 3 pygmy hatchetfish (now only 2); 2 celestial pearl danios; 6 ember tetras, 2 pygmy corydoras, 2 Amano shrimp, and 1 clithon corona (horned nerite) snail. I did lose green neons in quarantine to what I suspected was neon tetra disease and an oto with cysts that didn't respond to medication, as well as an ember tetra that had a similar cyst cropped up. All the remainders have looked healthy since the start of November 2021. All fish were purchased as very small juveniles. Do the CPD pics support my theory that these injuries are likely fish attacks? Or am I dealing with something else? Two separate issues?

@ColuPrior to seeing your advice, I had already treated the hospital tank with Maracyn and 1 T of aquarium salt. I've been acclimating the hatchet to the water but he is still in the specimen container at this point. Would you advise that I add the Ich-X to the meds already in the tank and simply not add further Maracyn? Or would I be better off draining the hospital tank and starting over? (*"that" edited to clarify I meant the hospital tank and not the specimen container) @xXInkedPhoenixX@Colu Thank you both for your help and time, on a holiday weekend night no less! I decided to go ahead and drain the hospital tank and medicate with only Ich-X and aquarium salt as I have the time and the water. x XinkedPhoenixX, no worries--this was a very, very helpful learning experience for me. Hopefully, I'll be able to post an "all better now" picture in the near future. : )

@ColuPrior to seeing your advice, I had already treated the hospital tank with Maracyn and 1 T of aquarium salt. I've been acclimating the hatchet to the water but he is still in the specimen container at this point. Would you advise that I add the Ich-X to that and simply not add further Maracyn? Or would I be better off draining the hospital tank and starting over? @ColuPrior to seeing your advice, I had already treated the hospital tank with Maracyn and 1 T of aquarium salt. I've been acclimating the hatchet to the water but he is still in the specimen container at this point. Would you advise that I add the Ich-X to the meds already in the tank and simply not add further Maracyn? Or would I be better off draining the hospital tank and starting over? (*"that" edited to clarify I meant the hospital tank and not the specimen container)

Thank you @xXInkedPhoenixX! I will dissolve 1 heaping tablespoon of aquarium salt into the hospital tank water before I move him over. I'm concerned that the fuzziness at the injury site already indicates a bacterial infection underway, but I am new to this. Do you think he looks infected in the photo? (I added the photo shortly after I posted.) Unfortunately, the coarse filter was for the temporary protection of the hatchetfish. I had a Cobalt Clearvue mini internal filter in this tank and the flow was too much for the hatchets. I slipped a small ACO sponge filter over the top of it to cover the outflow until I could swap it with a cycled ACO nano sponge filter. So bummed the little guy found a way to wedge himself behind there--I could have sworn it wasn't possible. Great idea--thank you!

On the morning of 11/25/21, I found one of my pygmy hatchetfish trapped between a coarse filter and the aquarium wall. Upon releasing it, he(?) no longer had use of one of its pectoral fins and sunk head down into some hairgrass but was still breathing. Not expecting it to survive, I dimmed the lights and watched while it made occasional attempts to swim that day. It eventually spent most of its time resting on the bottom of the tank near the heater. Surprisingly, it regained use of the pectoral fin and was eating by evening though swimming still appeared to take some effort. This morning (11/26/21) all appeared well, but upon closer examination this afternoon serious damage to his tail is apparent. There is what I believe is a bacterial infection of his peduncle (white fuzzy growth with a vertical thin bloody band between the growth and his body) and his caudal and anal fins are frayed. He has some use of his tail but is definitely using his body more than the other two hatchets to move through the water. He’s currently staying near the surface of the tank.I would appreciate some advice on the best treatment, if one is possible. I am preparing a 5 gl quarantine tank now with RO water, cycled ACO nano sponge filter, and Fluval 25 wt heater (preset 76-78F) and will be transferring the pygmy hatchet over yet this evening. He’ll be the only occupant of the tank.I have the following treatment options immediately available to me: Maracyn, KanaPlex, Furan-2, Ich-X, API Stress Coat+, API Stress Zyme+, and API aquarium salt. I expect the quarantine tank parameters in quarantine to be 0 ammonia/nitrate/nitrite and very low GH, KH, and pH due to the RO water. On his current tank, the parameters on 11/20/21 were 0 ammonia, 10 nitrate, 0 nitrite, 10 dKH GH, 2 dKH KH, 7.6 pH, and 0 chlorine. Today (11/26/21), I was just starting to retest the parameters and only got as far as ammonia which is .25. I am using the RO water I had set aside for today's water change to fill the quarantine tank so I'll treat the ammonia in the nano tank with prime today to tide that over if my RO system doesn't recharge fast enough. How can I best help this little guy? Here's a photo of the injury.

Like many of you, I've returned to the aquarium hobby recently. Winters where I live can be beastly. I've set up a nano tank so I can escape to a miniature warmer climate every day. I've easily learned an associate's degree worth of information already from this CARE forum and Aquarium Co-op's YouTube videos. I look forward to being an official part of this community. Next stop, figuring out how to become a dues paying member!