KittenFishMom

T'was the week before Christmas and all the neon tetras in my area seem to be sold out. I tried PetSmart in Ithaca, Pets a Plenty and CountryMax in Cortland and Petco in Auburn and they are all out of neon tetras. Any ideas on a other places I should try within easy driving distance of Moravia NY? I would rather not deal with Syracuse traffic and I would rather not put the fish through shipping when they not all that uncommon. I would also like some female Endlers and maybe a few more male guppies. (Will male guppies try to mate with female Endler if there are male endler in the tank?)

Update The oddly behaving guppy died and the betta was hanging out at the uncover end of the tank. The others are still swimming around looking happy. At first I thought the betta might have been dead. I past my hand in front of the glass, and he swam to the covered part of the tank, but was back in the light rather soon. I think it is a good sign he is showing interest in the environment.

@xXInkedPhoenixXIt is the plan for this evening. It was good to see the betta swim in the lighted area of the tank. I think it is happy it is not in that little cup any longer. I put the packet in and the water started foaming above the sponge filter. I hope they start to feel better tomorrow. Thank you for you help.

I think I will start the maracyn in their current tank now. I have scuds in containers all over the living room, so it is no problem if I lose the ones in this tank. If there is no improvement or the ammonia spikes, I can move the fish to the empty tank with fresh water and start the treatment again in the clean empty tank.

@xXInkedPhoenixX I am reading mixed messages in your post. Part of it seems to say keep the fish in the cycled tank. the end seems to say to move them to the empty tank for the med treatment. I think treating them where they are would be better, but I do have an empty tank that I could use to treat them, if that is best. I'm tired, so I may have misread what you wrote.

@xXInkedPhoenixX I had not planned on getting fish today ( I know, I should have waited, but it is too late now) I put the fish in my 10 gallon scud tank that has been cycled and has gravel and stones and algae etc in it. I could move the fish to an empty 10 gallon take with the used sponge filter, or I could keep them in this tank and treat them and the tank at the same time. I feel like moving them to a different tank would stress them out even more, but the tank they are in is not white glove clean. What do you think would be the best for the fish? I am in no rush, and can treat the fish one treatment at a time for 3 weeks. @xXInkedPhoenixX I had thought the betta had a crown tail, but he may have fin rot too. He seems to have perked up some and is exploring the tank more. He stayed on the bottom of his cup the whole time we were at the store.

@xXInkedPhoenixX I noticed the odd guppy's tail is ragged. If it has fin rot, I should start with the antibiotic first, right?

@CalmedByFish Thank you. I was just thinking the minnow would bother the other fish. I wasn't thinking about it infecting the big tank. If it does bother the other fish, I'll get a breeding "cage" for it so it can stay in the QT. @xXInkedPhoenixX I haven't fed them, but the endler have been feeding themselves off the stuff in the tank. They look like they will burst. I was planning on reading about the trio before using it. I remembered it said not to feed.

@xXInkedPhoenixX Thank you. I was planning to wait a day or 2 to let them settle in, but was wondering if it would help the guppy that is swimming at the surface and not acting like the other two.

They are in a quarantine tank. It is 10 gallons and will probably be their display case. I have native fish, bullheads, blunt nose minnows, killifish, blue gill/sunfish and 1 or 2 rock bass in the 55 gallon tank. They are all very small, hatched in the lake this summer I covered most of the QT with a towel because a video suggested keeping the lights low for the first 24 hours as the fish get used to the tank. 3 endlers and 2 guppies and having a lot of fun tasting everything. One guppy is slowly swimming close to the top under the towel. The betta is very slowly cruising around mostly under the towel. The minnow is under the sponge filter. It is strange, my adult scuds from the lake are about the size of the endlers. The real bummer is I watched the tank for a week and was sure all the blunt nose minnows and killifish were out, but after I floated the new fish and got them into the tank, I saw a minnow dart under the sponge filter. I will have to get him out. I am going to wait until morning before I start chasing him around with a net. Those minnows are use to being hunted in the lake and they are so fast, and so good at dodging in a different direction, it is very hard to get them into a net. The test strip says iron = 0, copper <0.5 general hardness CaCO3 ppm 120, chlorine = 0 total alkalinity = 360, carbonate = 180 pH 8.2. That water is stream water. We will start slowly switching to well water soon. The test strips say the well water has iron = 0, copper <0.5 general hardness CaCO3 ppm 0, chlorine = 0 total alkalinity = 360, carbonate = 240 pH 8.2 to 9.0. KitenFishMom

I did it, I went to CountryMax to buy some more aquarium plants and ended up buying: 1 Cory-o-door (no idea how to spell it's name) 3 male guppies (they did not carry females) 3 male Endlers (they did not carry females) 1 sad betta that was marked down to $4.99 because he had been there too long. He is a pretty blue with a crown tail, I think I bought an adjustable heater, a beta hammock a betta mirror and beta food. Now I have to google and review how to transfer them into the tank and start up the quarantine trio I also bought 6 bunches of hornwort because the eBay order was 2 stems that had sat in the post office for a week because storm delays, and looks worse for wear. All opinions and advice are very welcome! Wish me and the fish good luck ! @KittenFishMom

THIS IS ONLY FOR LIVE AND DEAD SITUATIONS ! If you find that your oxygen supply to your tank failed awhile ago (power out or otherwise) and your fish are showing clear signs of stress(like floating and some are dead), a trick that can up the oxygen quickly is a bit of peroxide. This is dangerous. Don't do it unless the fish are showing clear signs of stress. You must be very calm and careful because too much peroxide will act like bleach and kill your fish and plant and bacteria and everything. Peroxide breaks down to O2 and water, so this does not require an immediate water change but stressed fish release stress hormones into the water, so I would do a water change after things have calmed down. Take out some tank water and stir in a little peroxide and then stir the water back in and wait to see if it was enough to help. While you are waiting, setup your battery operated air pump. If you don't see improvement, take out more water and dilute a little peroxide again and wait again. I have done this with minnows while fishing on hot days, and have seen fish go from floating to swimming. I don't know if there is any formulas for how much peroxide to how much water, or how long to wait. There are a lot of variables, like temperature and how low the oxygen is when you start and how many fish per gallon and how much oxygen the type of fish need. This is really a last ditch effort to try to keep fish alive if they look like they are not going to make it. Also, peroxide turns into water quickly once it has been opened. I just keep a bunch sealed small bottles on hand for cuts and scraps. It is cheap, several small bottles last longer than a big bottle. I usually take a bottle in the boat when I am fishing, but I bring it back inside, I don't leave it in the boat.

This was suppose to be in the power out thread, not this thread. I copied it there, but do not know how to delete it from here. Anyone know how to remove a post from a thread? THIS IS ONLY FOR LIVE AND DEAD SITUATIONS ! If you find that your oxygen supply to your tank failed awhile ago and your fish are showing clear signs of stress(like floating and some are dead), a trick that can up the oxygen quickly is a bit of peroxide. This is dangerous. Don't do it unless the fish are showing clear signs of stress. You must be very calm and careful because too much peroxide will act like bleach and kill your fish and plant and bacteria and everything. Peroxide breaks down to O2 and water, so this does not require an immediate water change but stressed fish release stress hormones into the water, so I would do a water change after things have calmed down. Take out some tank water and stir in a little peroxide and then stir the water back in and wait to see if it was enough to help. While you are waiting, setup your battery operated air pump. If you don't see improvement, take out more water and dilute a little peroxide again and wait again. I have done this with minnows while fishing on hot days, and have seen fish go from floating to swimming. I don't know if there is any formulas for how much peroxide to how much water, or how long to wait. There are a lot of variables, like temperature and how low the oxygen is when you start and how many fish per gallon and how much oxygen the type of fish need. This is really a last ditch effort to try to keep fish alive if they look like they are not going to make it. Also, peroxide turns into water quickly once it has been opened. I just keep a bunch sealed small bottles on hand for cuts and scraps. It is cheap, several small bottles last longer than a big bottle. I usually take a bottle in the boat when I am fishing, but I bring it back inside, I don't leave it in the boat.

I won't let the cats drink until they are 21. I loved hearing my Gandpa talk about making Bathtub Gin... Maybe it has something to do with Probation?

I got a 120 tank and put it in my garage to hold my fishing catch until I was ready to release or clean them for my Mom. I had never had an aquarium before. That is why I say I backed into the hobby. I didn't expect to get hooked, so to speak. When the bullhead catfish parents were guarding their day old fry under the seaweed in my boat ramp. I grabbed a large mosquito net and quickly scooped up about 70 and dropped them in a 10 gallon tank and started researching raising baby fish. I called my baby catfish kittenfish. (My husband called them calfheads) I became their adoptive Mom, so KittenFishMom.

Do all cats do this? Every time I turn around, my cats are drink a little bit out of every water garden plant pot, and fish tank they can get their nose into. I brought in two water garden pants and have their pots sitting in wider pots of water. They cats have to drink a little out of both of them. I have 4, no 5 containers on the floor where I am experimenting with different set ups for scuds. The cats have to drink from them several times a day when I am trying to see how the scuds are doing. I have a 10 gallon tank on a table, cycling. They have to sample that water before and after I test the water. Now we have a pet water fountain next to their cat food that we clean frequently and make sure it never runs dry. They drink from that too, so it is not like they are lacking a clean water source. Are they doing this to show interest in my hobbies, or to show me and each other ownership of the water sources or are they just doing it to confuse me? I am confused, so if that is their goal, they are succeeding. What do you forum folks think is going on here?

A bit more information. I think LFS is Local Fish Store. Right now, my LFS is Owasco Lake. Everything in my indoor tank, but 3 plants came out of the lake. now that I have added the 3 plant, nothing can go back in the lake. I want to go to the Mom and Pop pet store that has been selling fish for decades, but I haven't gotten there yet. Now that COVID is spiking, I may not go for a good long time. I do a lot of research, and only had 4 fish die this summer. 2 jumped out of the tank and the other 2 took the fishing hooks to deep to attempt removal. They usually live, but these 2 did not. I had 57 perch and probably 15 or 20 other fish in my 120 tank for a few weeks I caught each one with my trusty fishing poles. It was a lot of fun to watch them and feed them, but it was a lot of water changes too. Before that I had about 70 baby bullhead catfish in 10 gallon tanks along with a variety of other fish in the big tank until the fry where big enough to avoid being eaten. (That is where KittenFishMom comes from). I always feed live worms I caught myself, but it is too cold for that now. Also brine shrimp I hatched for the fry and started a colony to get bigger ones for the big fish. Lots of fresh seaweed full of little creatures. Switching to an indoor tank and figuring out new foods has been a sharp learning curve because I wasn't planning on having fish inside this winter. (The 120 tank in my garage, was my first tank, bought in the spring to hold my catch until I had a good selection to clean for my Mom, on chemo, who likes very fresh fish, and not much else these days) In the spring I started with bullheads and mudpuppies. (Bullhead for Mom to eat, mudpuppies because I find them amazing and they both hit chicken hearts after sunset.) My water was lake water all summer, now it is creek/stream water that is 2 doors down from my cottage and flows into the lake. The water temp in the stream is 34 f right now, so we have to warm it to room temp before it is ready to use. We carry the water in 5 gallon buckets. (about 4 gallons to avoid getting splashed) We plan to slowly switch to well water before the snow gets deep. I need to test the well water and compare it to the stream water. There is no municipal water down here by the lake. So I am a wet behind the ears beginner who is learning a lot about keeping fish everyday. I may just stick to my lake fish, or I may try adding endlers or guppies to add for color to the tank. I may give away the lake fish and switch completely to fish from the hobby for my indoor tank. Time will tell. I never would have attempted an indoor tank without the support of this forum. This is a wonderful place to learn about the hobby.

@Barnacle_Gil and @Guppysnail do you treat plants or invertebrates with any of the quarantine trio or anything else?

@HotTunaCartelAnd Seneca lake is COLD! We had a boat at the south end from the time I was 4 until I was 8 or 9, then We switch to boating on Cayuga Lake for rest of my youth. I still remember how cold Seneca's water was, all summer long. Now we have a cottage on the south end of Owasco Lake. Each lake is very unique.

I did not expect to find any scuds in the lake this late in the fall, and am not finding any seaweed that is green, so I searched online and order java moss (A CoOp was sold out), hornwort, and scuds from eBay sellers with 100% positive feedback and high feedback counts. I have watched the videos about quarantining new fish, and treating them with the quarantine trio. I'm expecting about 100 scuds, 1 cup of hornwort and 15 grams of Java moss from 3 different sellers. How does one go about quarantining and treating such small amounts of new arrivals? Should I have 3 different containers, or should they all go in together? I did find a lot of scuds today, so I probably don't need the scuds that were shipped last week. If they are apt to introduce bad things into my tank, I could just try to give them away, or toss them. Note: I now have 4 containers for the lake scuds. I also put some in my 55 tank. If one colony crashes I will still have the other colonies. Is there a place on the forum where I can find info on caring for scuds?

My tank is doing much better. The ammonia is now at the first level out of 5 and the nitrates and nitrites have come up, so the bacteria are doing their job. I'll do a major water change again tomorrow. I added some scuds to the tank that I found today where the steam comes into the lake. The adults were too big for the fish to eat. I'm hoping the smaller ones slipped through the net and did not make it into the tank. I'm hoping the scuds will help keep the tank plants looking good.

Thank you for all int information ! I just did a 50% change with creek water (6 big buckets). We brought in last night and spent part of the day warming to room temp. I added a big drift wood log from the lake. I sent all the larger fish (about half) to a local pond with cooling instructions to help lower the ammonia load in the tank. I won't use the ammo lock. The lake pH was about 8.2 and the tank was about 9. The ammonia was at the second level out of 5 levels, I have been doing lots of water changes to avoid spikes. The fish are doing well, but their colors seem lighter than normal. I have the bare bottom so I can see if they are not eating a specific food and to see if I might be over feeding, I am trying to only feed every other day until things balance out. My scud tank's population is recovering. I put some of the smallest fish in there so they could get out of the ammonia. These fish are so small, they have trouble eating blood worms. So I don't think they can eat the adult scuds. My brine shrimp are bubbling away. I hope to get a good batch in the morning. I will feed some to the fish and put the rest in a tank to get a colony going. I am thinking about adding some non-native fish when everything stabilizes. What stock do you recommend for a high pH? I was hoping to get some live bearers and/or maybe some tetras to add some color.

I use lake water for my fish tank. There is a lot of lime stone in them there hills in the finger lakes, so the PH if up in the ideal for Marine water, not fresh water. I see a lot of product for raising PH. What do you recommend for lowering PH? I also started with a bare bottom tank and sponge filters that were in use. I figure between the used sponge filters and the natural bacteria in the lake water, the tank would cycle quickly, no such luck. I am doing a lot of water changes, cutting the fish population in half, and adding "Fritz Aquatics 80210 FritzZyme 7 Nitrifying Bacteria for Fresh Water Aquariums" and wonder if I should also add "API AMMO-LOCK Ammonia detoxifier" at the same time?

I am taking a new approach to having plants in my aquarium. I have tried several approaches, and it is time for a new one. First, I took seaweed with roots, out of the lake and put the roots in 2 inch pots with the suberates gravel and tuck them together against the back of the aquarium. The large number of crayfish tried to climb up the plants and dug around in the stones, going after settled fish food and such and always uprooted the plants. My second attempt was to let the seaweed float around and I changed it often, because the lake had a huge supply floating around on it. Now the lake is down and out and the fresh seaweed is not washing up anymore. I have some floating in my scud 10 gallon tank and my 55 tank. But there won’t be new stock until spring. My third attempt was to hang a plastic basket with side handles about halfway in the water with fiber fill in it and the HOB filter emptying into it. I put cutting in it. Some cutting grew, others did not. Now my tanks are inside with covers to keep the cats from going swimming, so baskets at the water surface don’t really fit under the covers. Currently, I am keeping the bottom of the tank substrate free so I can tell what and how much the picky eater fish are eating. I bought a water sprite and an easy planter, and it is starting to settle in and grow new leaves. I can easily move it between tanks in the easy planter. I have ordered "Windelov" Java Fern to tie to a rock and Pogostemon Stellatus Octopus to put in any other easy planter. I have a feeling the P S Octopus will want to be in soil, so I was planning on getting some aquarium soil and layer it in a pot between pebbles top and bottom to keep the circulating water from disturbing the aquarium soil. I bought Easy Green All-in-One Fertilizer Easy Root Tabs to feed the plants. My questions: Does this new approach sound like it will work, or does it need adjusting? What kind of soil should I put in the pot? What plant light to get? I want to get a good plant light for the 55 gal 4-foot-long tank. I don’t want to do colored light shows or fancy programming. I just want something that will be good for getting the plants to grow. Please let me know what you know about the lights on the market. (This really confuses me because aquariums should not be near windows with natural light because algae will grow out of control, but tanks need plant lights for the plants. I don’t understand where the balance is.)

I was reading "Fish I wish I bought sooner" and posted this there, but thought I should really just start it as a new topic.: I have been thinking about going non-native for my inside tank. My current native fish seem to only be willing to eat frozen blood worm, scud, and brine shrimp. My scuds colony had a collapse of some sort. I am trying to build up the population because it is too cold to get them in the lake now. I am also starting up a brine shrimp colony, but it will take time to get enough to feed all my fish adult shrimp. (Note: The bigger/older "shiners" have a dark spot on their dorsal fin, so now I think they are blunt nose minnows, but am not sure) I was thinking about thinning out the tank to just the very smallest of the fish and add some endlers or guppies, but I am beginning to realize the even the tiny fish will get bigger and probably eat whatever fish I add. All the native fish are skittish. Reading this thread about friendly fish makes me wonder if that might be more fun. It would also be nice to have fish that would eat a wider variety of foods. I want to visit a Mom and Pop pet store, that has been around for decades and see what their fish are like and what they (the fish, not the owners) will eat. There is a person near here with a spring fed pond he has built that will give any native fish a good home, so I could send him what is in my tank and start fresh with domesticated fish rather than trying to tame these fish to live in a 55 gallon inside an active home. I do think the fish were happier in the 120 tank in the quiet garage. Yesterday I stopped at a Petco and asked what food they had for mystery snails. (I caught a bunch in the lake, including huge ones). The Petco employee said "Oh you don't feed them. They eat algae and stuff". That is why I want to try this old pet shop that isn't part of a big chain. I would love your input on options for the future of my 55 gallon indoor tank.