LeonardoBetta

Hi all- I started on setting up a new 40G aquarium with a fishless biological cycle a few months ago. The tank is cycling- as I did this with fish food. No live plants yet either. Anyway, I am getting ready to put my fish in soon so I took a closer look yesterday and noticed white spiral scales on my aquarium gravel/ river pebbles. There are no strange growths on my river rocks. All these stones were bought from a pet store labeled for fish. I put them in hot water and to my knowledge sanitized them prior to adding them to tank. The white spirals feel like they are dry glue and not easy to scrape of with a finger nail. Now I am afraid to add my fish in case it is a weird fungus. Does anyone know what this could be? Fungus, calcium deposits, scale, or maybe some residue from the manufacturer? The river pebbles have this and the other large stones do not. Also, when I discovered this- I was cleaning the tank a little and found brown dusk within the rocks- I assumed it was the decaying fish food. That had a bad smell temporarily. Other than that my tank seems okay. Should I add my fish or clean everything and all start over (ugh), sanitize everything and rebuild excluding these river pebbles? Please advise-

Hi again- sorry for the confusion. I am replying back to my message. I just reread the recipe instructions. So Are those recipes intended for the daily meal?? If that is the case I am still wondering do I dose him with both meds/ meals at the same time or alternate meds 1 morning and then the 1 at night? please share your thoughts.

Thanks Colu and Jim- Just to be clear - he is in a 10g hospital tank- with no other fish. I have the following meds on hand: kanaplex, metroplex, and focus; as well as general cure which has the metronidazole and praziquantel. Would I better off trying to feed him than just dumping the medicine in the tank? If you think I should go with the feeding- Should I attempt to feed him both Kanaplex and metroplex mixed together in the same meal or alternate each type of medicine meal within both of his regular daily feedings (like kanaplex meal in morning then metroplex meal at night)? How much medicine goes into the feeding per day? For example the kanaplex recipe says 1 tbsp of food mixed with meds and store for a week. Do I give him regular food with no meds along with a little of the medicated food for each meal -during the treatment week? Should metroplex meal last for 3 weeks- as indicated in the instructions- meaning would I give him smaller dose daily than I would with the kanaplex meal(which says it will last a week)? He’s a pretty big goldfish I would say he could be 7-8 inches from nose tip to tail. Also- does the salt in his tank help? Should I leave it as it is now close to 1 tsp per gallon? Or should I back off salt since he has been living in that mixture in the hospital tank for almost 2 months. Thanks a lot!

Hello all, I have a 14 year old goldfish that I had kept in an 960 Gallon outdoor pond all of his life until the end of this July. At that time, it probably was 90 degrees most days outside but the pond temperatures did NOT rise into high 70s. I had noticed he stopped hanging around with the pack (3 10-16 inch koi, and 9 other goldfish ranging in various sizes). Then I observed he wasn’t coming up for daily feeding and still sitting at the bottom of the pond. Also I noticed him twirling a little bit too before we scooped him out of the pond. He wasn’t as easy to catch as I had thought either- as he knew enough to escape from one side of the pond to the other. From what I can tell the rest of the fish in the pond seem to be doing fine, in case you were wondering. I test the water periodically and ph is roughly 7.5, ammo close to 0, nitrites 0, nitrates 40-80ppm at times. My memory is a little fuzzy- but I recall in past recent years seeing little white bubbles on his tail now and again at the beginning of spring, not thinking much of that at the time. Now I am wondering if it was ick or something??? So I put him in a 10G hospital tank with filter, no heater in the house. Temperature is a steady 74 degrees Fahrenheit. The first few days in the new tank, he seemed sad, dorsal fin clamped and the red streaks or veins were showing in some white areas in his tail and fins. All along his appetite was very good- no twirling. After a while he became very friendly and perky! I was thinking I was starting to cure him at the time. He eats 2 times per day once at 10am and the 9:30pm. I feed him typically 6 omega goldfish pellets and 2 pond sticks each feeding- which I soak in water for 5 minutes prior to feeding him. He would eat more I am sure- but I am afraid to over feed with my biofilter not totally working. I treated him for 1-2 weeks with daily dose 1 cap Seachem Stressgard and 5 teaspoons of salt. After that I stopped the stressgard and put him on Seachem paraguard for another 3-4 weeks. He seemed to improve and not sure if it was my imagination, but some of the red streaks seemed to dissipate, but not all. When I stopped the paraguard the redness seemed to return. I noticed the nitrites in the tank rose to 1 ppm. All the while I was doing 15% water changes daily while trying to get to bio filter working. As of today ammo is 0 nitrite was .5, ph 7.2, and nitrate 10-20ppm. Anyway, I cannot figure out what the red streaks are. I posted pictures- now he does have his red goldfish color on his fins - that is not what I am talking about. See the red streaks in the white areas of his tail and bottom fins. His top fin and body do NOT have blemishes and look good. Is this finrot or - I am dreading hemorrhagic septicemia. Please send me your thoughts. Do you think I could treat him with even more salt, melafix? Or do you think I am wasting time and need to think about antibiotics- which I only want to use as last resort. I read somewhere that treating older fish with harsh meds may mess up there kidneys. He is 14 or 15. Again as of today he is super happy, hungry and perky. I bought him a 40G aquarium, as I Plan to keep him inside from now on. I am waiting to move him until I am sure he is cured. Please send me your thoughts- any advice would be appreciated.

Hi JamesB, Colu, Anita/all, I just wanted to let you know that Leonardo was not doing well after all the treatments. He hardly moved the last couple days. Meanwhile I was tending to him after the last medication wore off with the normal things - like water changes, talking to him, etc. Today I came to the realization that he was not getting any better, and he wasn’t living the way he should. He didn’t struggle getting into the net today, I put him to sleep with clove oil. It was a pretty sad day here for me and the family. I appreciate all your advice and caring during this time. You are really wonderful folks. Not sure when I will get another betta. They are so beautiful. I do have outdoor pond fish and a cat so I will focus on them for a while. Attached is a great picture of him during happier times. (SIP Leonardo 😔) Take Care- Leonardo’s mom

Thanks James- Leonardo was an impulse buy at Petco one evening when I was shopping for cat supplies. I saw him and had to take him home with me. I will continue to keep you posted on what is going on with him.

Hey JamesB, I have a feeling things are not going well. He is still alive and sleeping all the time. He has been at the bottom of the tank, gils moving. Yesterday went I gave him him last treatment of General Cure- I gave a gentle nudge to a rock where he was laying. This time he swam to the top and quickly spiraled back down into the rocks. It wasn’t with the same vigor as he had a few days ago - and that was the first time I had seen him swimming erratically in circles. I have a feeling he is dying. I just hope I am not hurting him at this point. Although he doesn’t seem in distress. I am afraid to try to net him to euthanize cause he seems so jumpy when slightly touched. Anyway, tomorrow according to the gen cure instructions I am supposed to change out water. I am at a crossroads I think. I appreciate you and others who have given me advice during this sad and confusing time for me. What I don’t understand is how he is staying alive this long. He hasn’t eaten to my knowledge in a couple weeks. Why did all the different treatments seem to fail or not improve him much? I wish I knew. Maybe he was older than I thought when I bought him. Here are some nice pictures of him the first day and week when I bought him last year. Thanks for your concern-

Hi JamesB, I cannot really get a good look at his belly today. I do recall I thought his belly was a bit swollen prior to the antibiotic treatments with no sign that I could tell of pineconing. I don’t have Paraclense, and I had been checking some local pet stores online and cannot locate it. However I have here at the house -Api General Cure and after comparing the active ingredients/measurements online- they look to be very similar or same as paraclense. I will do a water change later today and try this. I will keep you guys posted on what happens. thank you 😊

Hi JamesB - Thanks for checking in. Leonardo is still hanging in there. His eyes are still cloudy and is still lethargic - same as before. Doesn’t seem better and doesn’t seem worse. So after my last correspondence with you- I more carefully re-read your thread about Hugo and watched your film clip of the salt bath. I remembered Leonardo looked the same way when I added salt to his tank during a treatment. I read more on how you gave Hugo some space - and how he revived afterwards and looked better than ever- so I went that route somewhat. I kept things real quiet for him the past couple days, except for 30% daily water changes and daily 1 capful of stressgard in 5gallon tank. Tomorrow should be the 10th day since his kanaplex/furan treatment. I am puzzled about the whole thing. According to everything I read that Popeye should have gotten better with those meds (prior to kanaplex/furan treatment he had maracyn/salt). I read sometimes Popeye/cloudy eyes can be caused by parasites( eye flukes) - had you heard of that? Then I was thinking a few weeks prior to him being sick his poop had changed from solid to whiteish film or something. Do you all think maybe the reason he wasn’t responding well to the antibiotics is that something else could be going on here? I know you guys mentioned he could just be old and not doing well because of that as well. What do you think of kanaplex/metroplex treatment- or maybe triplesulfa? Please send me your thoughts- Thanks a lot 🙂

Hi Anita/all, Leonardo (my betta) is still hanging in there. I will try this feeding technique tomorrow. Also, I was thinking about doing the salt treatment described by JamesB first - in a day or so. Can I do water changes during the salt treatment as long as I am conscientious about keeping track of the salt amounts? Then if that treatment doesn’t work, I will start the 2nd round of Kanaplex/Furan-2. Does that sound like an okay plan? Thank you- Leonardo’s mom 🙂

Thank you Anita- I will look into your tweezer feeding approach and see what happens. One thing that was different before he got sick was I was not able to do an entire tank cleaning since January. I would do that once a month. I used to be able to trick him and get him into a plastic quart container. He would just swim into it in the past. Then he got wise to that approach. I was afraid to scoop him with a net cause i was afraid to tear his fins. However, despite me not being able to do a deep tank cleaning- I did gravel vacuuming one or twice a week. Maybe that caused the problem and why it is persisting? I did another water change gravel vac today again of 2&1/2 gallons. I added 8 drops of Prime. This evening I gave him 3/4 cap of Stressgard. I did not put salt in or round 2 antibiotics-yet. I was following Colu’s instructions to give him a little break. Thanks for your help.

Hi Anita, I have several silk plants, lily pad, a couple betta leafs, and ceramic betta log all bought from petco. I started with 1 plant and ceramic log- and added more over time. I think I hadn’t added much anything new since last fall. I thought he was getting bored so I kept adding. Here is a picture of the tank. I have been keeping his light off most of the day at this point. He is sleeping on his side by his log. Kind of hard to see him. There is an air stone in there in the back too. I have it on now. Would filter related accessories cause issues if they are too old? I kept some sponges and a bag with white bio balls or something like that inside the fluval spec filter sponge -thinking it has good bacteria. Maybe they need changed out? I put a carbon one in for now after the first round of kanaplex/furan2 was completed. Thank you for your interest.

Thank you for sending this story JamesB. It gives me some hope that I can fix his problem. I might try giving him his space too not peeking at him so much. When you said 1T of salt per gallon, did you mean 1 Tablespoon Aquarium Salt? Interestingly enough I have the same exact fluval spec 5 as you. As I mentioned in a previous message- my betta would float by that intake up top- so I put a sponge over it. I think that activity also caused his fins to fray a little too. I seem to get a lot of algae in here and I feel like the tank looks dirty despite my gravel vacuuming and maintenance over the past year. Do you cover your light to limit algae growth? I will keep you guys posted on his progress. thanks a lot

Hi JamesB, I just replied to rben’s message and addressed to you. Well hopefully everybody reads it. To answer your question the water Params today were ph 7.5, ammo 0, nitrite 0. I didnt do the others. I as mentioned in a prior post I did a half tank water change out a few hours ago from my 5 gallon tank. Note he is the only creature in this tank. I got this betta at petco late last January. He was labeled as a black orchid. I think he is a rose tail. Ever since I had him he seemed to pretty lazy hanging up at the top on leaves or nearby filter slot flow against a sponge- and struggle with what I believed to be fin rot. Finally I discovered he was tail nipping - and was possibly all along. I also thought when I first got him he didn’t see well - missed pellets or worms right in front of his face at times- so I literally spoon fed him like a baby every meal. Maybe he is a good actor and liked me to spoil him. Anyway that’s a little more insight on him.

Hello JamesB, Thank you for the idea. I may have to think of a creative way to film him with my phone or maybe an old video camera. My betta is certainly a puzzle. I did a gravel vacuum of 2 and 1/2 gallons of water about 4 hours ago. He stayed in that limp position in the earlier photograph while I vacuumed the other side of the tank. When I gently added the water back as to not disturb him he started to lay on the gravel upright again (see picture). He stayed like that a good half hour. I tried to feed with tweezers and he swam up into a leafy plant (see picture) and stayed there until I turned his lights out. He did not eat, but I left the worm and 2 small pellets in there. I went away and came back a half hour later he was sitting on the gravel kind of normally pointed as if he was looking out in my direction.

Thanks for the quick reply. Someone else in my family was wondering if he might be eating stuff at the bottom. To me when I look in at him he is laying in a certain place for several hours then moves. I guess anything is possible. Do you think he actually is eating something due to his bursts of energy? I had finished the first round of kanaplex and furan-2. Are you saying I should continue with a second round of both meds? Is it possible I misdiagnosed something and he could have internal parasites and treat for those? I don’t get what could be wrong- although the eyes are swollen. Here is a picture of him a few minutes ago. He’s limp like this most of the time.

Sorry - let me correct something I wrote in my prior email. I was dosed him with Seachem Stressgard to make him drowsy, not Stresscoat. thanks

Hi Colu, I don’t know what could be happening. I have tried everyday once or twice a day since I last written to you- to feed him. I have gotten close to his mouth with a worm but he doesn’t seem interested. I have been soaking food in garlic juice too to entice him.He sleeps on the bottom all day. Then when I try to work with him he has bursts of energy. This has been going on since 3/23. Physically except for his swollen eyes looks okay- meaning no sores, pineconing, etc. ph 7.5 ammo 0, nitrite 0. I was going to euthanize this morning. I had put in a capful of stress coat (he’s in 5gallon) last night and another this morning - thinking it would make him drowsy enough to catch with a net. He looked almost dead- then I tried a few times to scoop him up and he darted up and down- then around the tank. Then I tried to feed him and he buried his head in rocks. I am at a loss with why he looks okay physically- but won’t eat, and won’t die from starvation or whatever is ailing him. Should I just keep his tank clean and just keep doing what I am doing? I am afraid he may jump out of the net if I try pull him out to euthanize- with these energy bursts. Is this normal behavior for a sick/ dying fish? please advise- thank you

Hi Colu, No luck in feeding him yesterday, although he didn’t seem as scared of the tweezers. He slept most of the day curled up. This morning he is the same curled up and still breathing heavily this morning. Last night was the fourth dose of furan 2. So that sounds like the treatment for first round is complete. Now the kanaplex says repeat dosage up to three times - every other day. The third dose of that would be for tonight. Should I give him furan 2 again with kanaplex tonight? Had you ever seen a fish recover well that has not eaten in a week? Since he sleeps all the time except when I wake him up occasionally to try to eat- is that normal for a sick fish being treated by these meds? I am not sure if this treatment is helping, but I am by no means an expert. Thanks for your help please advise-

Hi all, Just to clarify I took the bio filter sponge out of the main tank thinking I could preserve the beneficial bacteria so the antibiotics would not kill them. They are sitting in my 1 gallon with nothing else and small filter moving the water. Note my betta is the only indoor fish that I have. Anyway as far as progress: Last night was treatment day #3- where I changed 25% of the water, then added both the kanaplex and furan-2. Betta has been sleeping all morning from what I can tell- it’s 12:30pm. Prior to that treatment last evening around 8:30pm, yesterday after he seemed more active than he had been a in quite a few days. He wasn’t hiding at was out but in some weird positions. He seemed more interactive visibly with me - at one point he was opening his mouth the same way in the past - like he used to when he was hungry. I went out quickly and bought long aquarium tweezers to try and feed him but he seemed scared of them. I dropped some worms nearby him, but I doubt he actually ate them. Yesterday seemed like the best day so far. Meanwhile today I think he is probably tired from those antibiotics. I will try to feed him later. Do you have any tips on feeding? Things were looking promising yesterday- if it wasn’t for him not eating. If he doesn’t eat in a more few days - do you think maybe it’s time to give up? I don’t want him to suffer. Attached is a picture from yesterday and the tweezers I bought. As always thanks for your advice-

Thanks for the information Colu. I have a few more questions- I hope you don’t mind. Sorry for so many. Just curious how long can a betta go without food before it starts to affect his strength? Also, before I started the kanaplex/furan2 treatments I took the main bio filter sponge out and put it in a separate tank so the beneficial bacteria wouldn’t die off during the treatment. Was it okay to do that? Should I have kept it in place with treatment in main tank. Can the bio filter sponge harbor bad bacteria too? So when my fish is feeling better- if I put it in could he get another infection possibly from this filter? please advise-

Hi Colu/all, I started the kanaplex and api furan-2 treatment Saturday evening around 8:45pm. Last night I gave him only furan-2. Tonight I read that I should change 25% of the water and then dose with Kanaplex and furan-2. I guess he could be doing a little better as he is no longer laying on his side. He is upright and mostly on the bottom of the aquarium. He has not eaten for several days. Should I try to feed him? If so how? He is at the bottom of the aquarium. In your opinion- when should I see him starting to behave like his old self? Or how long do I give this treatment to actually work - before considering the final options. Please advise-

Hi Colu/ all, please help here is the log of events over past few days. Bottom line maracyn and salt did not seem to improve his condition. I thought he actually died yesterday. I think something more than Popeye is going on- but I can’t be sure. Water changes and stressgard seemed to help in terms of him not laying on his side constantly. He has not eaten for a few days. Should I use kanaplex? Or will it be too harsh. Should I try methylene blue(which is active Ingredient in stressgard, as I think that perks him up)? I just don’t know what to do but I feel if I don’t figure something out he may die soon. Although he is NOT pinconing yet. ***********activity log: 3/22 -didn’t come out at regular time to eat in morning; finally ate daphnia at 10:10am; @10pm last of 5 day treatment with maracyn was given. 3/23- no treatment all day seems like he cannot see at all 3/24 - morning very ill laying on bottom; eyes look bad too; no eating 2:30pm first water change since treatment of maracyn and 2 tbls aquarium salt - removed 2 1/2 g out of 5G water gravel vac; IAL tea; prime 8 drops Added charcoal filter 7pm 1/2 cap stressgard No eating all day. ; slept most of day 3/25 No signs of him all day all morning until 5:15 pm; laying behind air stone at back of aquarium on his side he looked dead. I touched the air stone and he came back to life swam quickly to top of aquarium and stay right side up at the bottom for a while. Shortly after Changed 2g/5gof water while gravel vac; added IAL 7pm stress gard no eating all day 3/26 - was up in the morning; seems a little improved- but laying on bottom most of day. No eating so far. Here is a picture of him about an hour ago- 2pm Any ideas or advice will be most appreciated- He means a lot to me.

One more additional post to go with prior message. His water temp is 80-81 degrees. Here are some pictures from this morning. There is a glare due to sunshine.

Hello, I started my bettas combination salt treatment and marcyn treatment on 3/18. Prior to today- he seemed like he was getting better in terms of more normal swimming activity. His eyes seem the same. He was on a regular lite feeding schedule, until this morning- where he seems interested in food- but doesn’t want to swim to top and get it. As of yesterday 6pm water params were: ph 7.4 ammo 0 or maybe .1? nitrite 0 nitrate 5ppm Does maracyn make them lose their appetite? After today’s maracyn treatment should I give him a break? Or try for a round 2? I don’t want to over medicate him. Any advice would be appreciated. thank you!