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Doke

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  1. Doke
    @Colu / @Odd Duck - do you have a specific fenbendazole or flubendazole product/treatment that you recommend? Is it similar to levamisole where you are merely paralyzing the worms and they need to be removed after, and the treament needs to be repeated for an extended period of time? One product i found is a fenbendazole flake. Treament as listed is: "One feeding of this food exclusively, every other day for 5 total feedings will give the proper dosage. Feed the fish only once on the day of the treatment at the end of the day. They should be kept hungry, so they will eat vigorously. Repeat the full treatment after 3 weeks" In regards to trying to reduct the amount of the mycobacterium in the tank, do either of you have any thoughts on Diana Walstads method of using UV sterilizers to stop the proliferation of the mycobacterium? Whats really getting me is that the cpds deaths have been so slow in incoming. It was over a year before the first loss. And several months for the first white cloud death.
  2. Doke
    To update anyone that comes across this thread, I did end up losing all of my endlers. I finished out @Odd Duck's levamisole and paracleanse routine and during that time and for months after I did not lose anymore fish (CPDS and corys being the fish here). I waited an additional 3 months after the last endler death and introduced 10 white cloud mountain minnows after a 8wk quarantine in which i treated with the med trio on week 1 and then followed up with Odd Duck's levamisole and paracleanse routine starting on week 3 to cover all my bases before introducting into the main tank. All was well for several months but starting in August I lost my first CPD and a White Cloud, and from August to now (November 27th) I lost an additional 5 white clouds and 4 cpds (no cory deaths still...those buggers are sticking it out). The only visible symptoms have been sunken bellys on 2 CPDS, thinning of two White Clouds, and then behavioral changes such as isolating themselves from the rest of the tank and surface hanging. Nitrates have stayed around 10-15ppm, and all other paramterers remain as listed at the start of the original post. When the deaths started up again I did @Colu's kanaplex and jungle fungus clear treatment as that was the only major treatment I had not yet attempted. In total every fish in my care as well as the display tank have gone through a full treament of maracyn, kanaplex/jungle fungus clear, and levamisole/paracleanse over the last year. I'm now at the point where I suspect a Mycobacteriosis infection (fish TB). Sources seem conflicting on whether or not mycobacteria is present in all aquariums, and whether its lethalitly is merely determined by the fishes immune system / stress levels. These sources claim all you can do is manage the bacteria load through UV sterilizers and adequate filtration, aeration, and overall stable and appropriate water parameters (Diana Walstad's take). Or if it is less prevalent and once identified the whole system needs to be scrapped and disinfected (the nuclear option). I think I might find a fish vet or pathologist to conduct a necropsy and fast-acid stain to check for mycobaceriosis. Unforuntately there are non in my city but I am exploring options. I would love to have other tanks / aquascapes and continue in this hobby. But at this point I have to admit I am feeling discouraged. That being said I am grateful for this community and the contributors that have provided guidance for myself and others. Below is how the tank looks these days
  3. Doke
    Will do, thank you!
  4. Doke
    @Colu after day 5 if not doing another round of treament, how long would you wait before doing a water change to get the meds out?
  5. Doke
    Appreciate your help and time as always!
  6. Doke
    @Colu For your Kanaplex and jungle fungus treament routine, are you adding full dose (for my 20g 2 tabs) everday that says jungle fungus clear? For the total treatment: 10 tabs? Double checking since the directions say add 1 dose of jungle fungus, wait 4 days and then add a second dose.
  7. Doke
    I have to say the 40 is looking AMAZING! Once I have more space I'm hoping to do a 40g breeder cold water river tank
  8. Doke
    Sorry to hear that. Did any other CPDs end up affected?
  9. Doke
    Thanks for the update! Sorry to hear he passed. Did any other CPDs end up affected?
  10. Doke
    Hey @Marc! How did things turn out for you CPD? I got the exact same thing going on with one of mine. Same pogo sticking around
  11. Doke
    Hey @jwcarlson, how did things turn out for you CPD? I got the exact same thing going on with one of mine. Same pogo sticking around
  12. Doke
    @Odd Duck I’m running activated carbon now (in case there were any contaminants killing the endlers) but will be removing it to dose expel-p today. Can I add the carbon back after the first 24hrs of medicating and the water change? Or do I need to leave it out for the next few weeks? I know most of the affects of the expel-p should take place in 24hrs but I wasn’t sure if the remaining amount sitting in the tank over the next week was actively doing something?
  13. Doke
    They were very appreciative of the heads up. They said they haven't had any issues with the endlers stock or heard anything but they will follow up with the breeder and their in house biologist is going to run some tests on one of the endlers still in their current stock.
  14. Doke
    great idea will do!
  15. Doke
    Super insightful, appreciate all the help from yourself and the other contributors!
  16. Doke
    Yea since Im treating cory's I'll continue to dose per the label dosing, but I appreciate you double checking 🙂 And that's very cool, your expertise and experience are certainly appreciate by myself and many others on the forum! As you said there is a lot of information out there, and you hear a lot of both sides in regards to dosing the water vs dosing through food. In your experience would you say there is any difference dosing in the water vs doing in the food? I'm assuming when treating with some that may affect inverts negatively dosing through food lowers the risk to them if you must treat in the display. In this situation is it just dealers choice?
  17. Doke
    @Odd Duck Thanks for the advice! Will definitely make sure to keep nitrates sub 20 as a standard. At this current stage its looking like I'll lose the rest of my endlers and being focusing on maintaining the health of the CPDs and Corys, and then add some non-livebearers in @ a future date. Probbaly will never truly figure out what wiped them out. That being said will still finish on the gill flukes treatment for the corys in the display (have yet to see a single cpd flash, just the corys and endlers). And then will treat with expel as they have yet to have any levam treatment. The tap water Nitrate/nitrite/ammonia is 0ppm, but the Ph and hardness is the same as my tank, maybe a hair lower due to hardness creep in my tank but pretty close to spot on. (I got RO water this week to make sure I can do all my top offs with it and give the plants a chance to uptake more of the minerals) That's good to know about the prazipro vs paracleanse prazi dosage when administered per instructions. Do you know what the efficacy or pros/cons of treating the water column with levam vs feeding levam soaked food is? I'm assuming you and Colu have each had success with your given treatment strategy.
  18. Doke
    Ahhh got it! That makes sense. I'll look for some spirulina then 🙂 Appreciate the help and insight @nabokovfan87!
  19. Doke
    I'll give it a go! Thanks for your help @Colu, its much appreciated.
  20. Doke
    @Colu my bad, going to fast between work and the thread, saw you originally answered that. Have some on the way and should be able to run during the off week of paracleanse next week. Would one 7 day course of expel-p in food be sufficient?
  21. Doke
    I could certainly get some expel-p for that. Would you consider one 7 day course of that sufficient?
  22. Doke
    @Darax That's awesome! I feel nervous to give endlers another go and like @TOtrees said will give it a min. of several months. But that is very encouraging
  23. Doke
    @Colu On another note, what do you consider the best timeline for follow up on paracleanse? So far I did a week treatment, 2wks off, and then on week 4 am currently treating again with paracleanse. Should I do another 2wks off to follow up with prazipro in 3wks or just 1wk off and treat with prazi in 2wks? that is very interesting, maybe if I give the livebearers another go I'll start with 2 males and 5 females and see if their spawn do better.
  24. Doke
    Thanks for chiming in @Colu (have read many...many of your posts in the hunt to diagnose whats going on). I would say as far as flashing goes, it was highly variable. I work from home so I can watch my tank essentially non-top and I might go a week only seeing 1 pygmy cory flash 2-3x in quick succession on 1 day. Or I might see a couple corys and 1 or 2 endlers flash once a day a few days in a row. It was never more than a few fish at a time, and it was never constant. It would be like 2x-3x in a 60sec window and then done for the day-several days. This morning I did my second dose of paracleanse for the week and immediately after 1 of the pygmys flashed twice (im assuming this is the meds irritating the flukes). I plan on doing a 3rd round of treatment but with prazipro to knockout anything paracleanse didnt. As of this morning Nitrates are in the 10-15ppm. I listed the range up to 40 as they have gotten that high before but they tend to float right around 20ppm. I didn't want to keep the nitrates too much lower as my understanding was that plants grew best in the 20-40 range. But I can certainly continue to make sure to keep them closer to 10-20ppm. Could nitrates having gotten to 40ppm really caused death in endlers (I test weekly and I would say of the last 24wks I have had 2wks where nitrates were that high, likely due to overfeeding)? I feel like the shrimp and corys would have suffered first. @nabokovfan87 Definitely will do some larger water changes as soon as this weeks paracleanse course is done. I think the water parameters are pretty solid for the endlers and they are a pretty good match to what they were bred in before I had them. I do feed all the fish daphnia every other day alternating with their pellet food and blanched peas once a week. They might not have a 10/10 diet but its been pretty solid and I have not seen any signs of bloat. @TOtrees That is pretty much the conclusion I've come to (partially just to stay sane). I've actually only thrown paracleanse and aquarium salt at them to try to avoid stressing them when I don't know what I'm treating. All the meds I listed are what I have not what I have been using (I dont blame you for missing that...I wrote an absolute novel haha 😅). I do plan on adding activated charcoal the second this round of paracleanse ends on Friday! I think the recommendation to avoid livebearers for a min. of 3mos is a great one, I'll probably never add them back to this tank tho 😞. I'll probably go ricefish as I think they would look great with the CPDs and corys. Even then I will wait 2mos to add new fish. @Guppysnail It very well could be that I caught the gill flukes too late and for some reason the other species in the tank have handled it better than the endlers. Very much appreciate the solidarity and confirmation parameters are alright for them. I've been holding off on Kanaplex and jungle fungus in the display cause of my inverts but maybe I should have ran of course of that in my hospital tank for them sooner. @Aiden Carter They were drip acclimated and the only meds they've had a course of are paracleanse so far. My raw tap water parameters are pretty identical to the tank parameters I listed, other than the waterhardness and PH is slightly higher due to GH and PH creep from top offs. I have begun doing top offs with Distilled water to help address and give more time for the plants to take up those minerals. I would wager the endlers are in the 9mo range agewise. Thank for all the replies, I know the OP was loooooong! Have really appreciated reading from this community over the last 4mos and I even more so appreciate people responding and chiming in on this tricky one. Going forward it seems like best steps are some water changes and activated carbon. It's definitely disheartening trying to do everything right and still losing fish.
  25. Doke
    Hello! Tank Info: 23 gallon AOI 3 stage sump filtration with coarse sponge, an absurd amount of ceramic rings, finer sponge, and powerhead. Also running an airstone Stocking: 3 endlers (all male), 16 pygmy corys, 11 CPDs, 5 cherry shrimp, 2 zebra nerite snails Heavily planted Tank age: 4mos/26ish wks Water Parameters: pH: 7.8-8 Nitrates: 20-40ppm (depending on how recently i changed water...typically I change 20% weekly) Hardness: GH-350ppm Nitrite: 0ppm Ammonia: 0ppm KH/Buffer: 300ppm Water Temperature: 74.5 First time poster here. This is my first foray into the aquarium world and I have been experiencing an incredibly frustrating mystery die-off of my endlers. The only fish deaths I have experienced have been with the endlers (I started with 9 male endlers and am down to 3). All 9 seemed 100% for the first 8wks, and then on week 9 one randomly died overnight. No skinniness, no aggression, no sign of camallanus worms, no scale or fin damage, no fin clamping, no fungus, no bent spine, no pineconing, no bloat, no visible external disease other than some very occasional (couple times a week) flashing (currently on wk 4 so 2nd treatment with paracleanse for gill flukes, and the treatment seems to be addressing the flashing in all the fish). The only indicator of an unhealthy fish was 12hrs before death the fish would lay on the substrate instead of swimming around, which is obviously an indicator something is wrong but I have no idea what. As soon as I lost the first fish I tested all my parameters for a spike in ammonia/nitrite/nitrate - nada....Ph or temperature fluctuation - nada. No aerosols have been sprayed around the tank and no new plant or fish additions were made. All fish go through a 3 wk quarantine at my LFS as well (which ik know leaves room for parasites to still be an issue but I have been treating with paracleanse in the display tank and salt in a hospital tank) So I assumed it was something random and maybe just a weak fish. Another couple weeks go by and I lost 2 more. Another week and 1 more. Then 2 more. In each situation the fish that died looked and acted 100%, eating and swimming well, but then 12hrs before death would hang out on the bottom of the substrate then die usually overnight. The deaths have not been tied to any particular food (I feed a rotation of hikari vibra bites, micro pellets, algae wafers, blanched peas, and freeze dried daphnia). No pattern of deaths with water changes. I know that sometimes cities will do an extra strong pulse of chlorine after heavy rain so I always make sure to compensate with a heavier dosage of dechlorinator (i use API aqua essential which is like Prime) and I treat only the new water prior to it being added. But like I said no pattern of death with water changes. I am really at a lost. I do know that my water is extremely hard but if it was the hardness that was hurting the fish and causing some kind of internal organ failure, I would think the pygmy corys and CPDs would suffer but they are all doing fantastic (They were all breed in SoCal in the same extremely hard water so they seem to be used to it). My local fish store (which is really great) has absolutely no idea whats going on. It is very clearly something that is only affecting my endlers as all the other inhabitants are doing great, but I find it so odd considering endlers are suppose to be so hardy and corys and cherry shrimp can be more sensitive. For the last month I've ran a bubbler in addition to the powerhead to make sure it was not a water oxygenation issue (my moss is pearling so I dont its that) but that has not seemed to low the deaths down. I have tried to not throw meds at the fish without identifying what the disease but I have gone through all the levels of the Co-Op Salt treatment in a 10g hospital tank for a couple of the endlers and they still died (no obvious water parameters issues in the hopsital tank either and I ran a cycled sponge filter that I keep in my main display tank). I've held off treating with ich-X, Kanaplex, Maracyn, Jungle Fizz, and Maracyn 2 as I have not see any identifiers to diagnose the problem, but I do have all these meds on hand, in addition to paracleanse, aquarium salt, and prazipro. I have some activated carbon media to run after this treatment of paracleanse in case there is some unknown contaminant killing them (but again I feel like it should damage the other occupants) Currently 2 of the last 3 endlers are doing and looking great, 1 has started to show what I know to be the predicator of death in the last 2hrs (that would be the pictured yellow cobra endler). A part of me is just anticipating I will end up losing all of my endlers and I just need to give up on the species. Current plan is 4-6wks after last death start a 6wk quarantine for some ricefish to replace the endlers. Hoping that whatever killed the endlers doesnt kill them. Any insight or guesses would be much appreciated. I think I've read close to 100hrs of articles, studies, forums, and blogs to identify what is going on and I feel no closer to stopping the endler deaths. Best Jordan As far as what is regularly added to the tank water its only iron (1/2 dosage weekly) and then dechlorinator for water changes. No other ferts or additives
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